My six year old asked if he could stay home today. "I hate church!" he said. "It's so boring. There's nothing to do. There's no games!" (This is the same boy upon whose head I pronounced the blessing that he would receive the ministry of angels. I wonder now how that will happen.)
I encouraged him (by precept only, since the LDS Church prevents me from leading by example) to listen, pray, sing and read the scriptures at church. I said, "I would go if I could, but they won't let me."
"Why won't they let you?" he asked.
"They say I'm not good enough."
He thought about that for a moment, then asked: "Why do other dads get to go?"
"Because they say they're good enough."
Will,
ReplyDeleteI have 2 answers for you from what I have experienced with my own children:
1. The Spirit has counseled me to LOVE them, no matter what, no matter...love them with all my heart, and they will see your good example and desire to come to Christ at some point in their lives. This is so very important I cannot over emphasize it.
Your love will bind them to you and will point them to what you find important, Yeshua Messiah.
2. I strongly believe these are some of the souls referred to in Ezekiel 34 (Denver read Ezekiel 33-34 in Mesa, without comment, implying it refers to our day, wh. the Spirit already had pointed out to me prior to that talk). These are some of those Ezekiel said were wandering, or driven away, or lost, due to the arrogance and incompetence of "the shepherds" who are only interested in "feeding themselves". These are those whom the Lord says (thru Ezekiel) He Himself will seek and find and bring to the mountains of Israel (Zion). I do not have the scriptures before me, but this is what the Spirit has taught me re my own children who also struggle.
Much love brother,
James Russell Uhl
Thank you, James.
ReplyDeleteI wrote a letter to my (former) bishop today, citing Ezekiel 34. But I thought better to remove that reference, seeing no point. (Why stir up more contention?) Of course I love my children. I'm just sad...very, very sad...that this organization (I so faithfully supported) now separates me from my family.
NOT ONCE have those who excommunicated me ever stopped by just to visit, or instruct me. (Not that they wouldn't be welcomed!) They, frankly, have nothing to offer. (And that's disturbing, too, on so many levels.)
My only choice is to "turn away" -- even as they have turned away from me -- leaving my wife and children in the lurch. They threaten to prosecute me if I go to church with them. Nearly every Mormon I know has "de-friended" me on Facebook. It's very sad.
This organization, apparently, doesn't care. No one has left the ninety and nine to seek out the one (me), if they considered me "lost". They are satisfied, apparently, with the status quo, to leave things just as they are.
(If my family didn't go to church without me each Sunday, NONE of this would matter. But, as it is, they get my wife and kids...without me. That hurts.)
I'm so sorry, Will. This is sad in so many ways. I will say that I found great joy in attending another church today. Perhaps if you can't attend together, perhaps at least there might be another place out there which may help lift your heart in the meantime? Love and prayers for you and your family.
ReplyDeleteThanks, jenheadjen.
DeleteOf course, no INSTITUTION can "save" us. That being said, it sure is nice to have (even if it's only an illusion) the opportunity to join with others in worshipping God, to sing praises to Him, to offer heart-felt prayers, mingling with others as "friends" united in brotherhood. When we are "weak" (at times), the "strong" can buoy us up.
It's a terrible thing to have one's family rent asunder religiously. Once that fabric tears (something I once considered "impossible" and "unbreakable" in my family) EVERYTHING else becomes "tissue" by comparison. It ALL starts to fall apart.
Maybe my former bishop and stake president were right: they said if I didn't "repent" of my "apostasy" and follow THEM, I would lose my wife and children! (I never imagined THEY would be the cause of it!)
I don't think for a minute that LDS leaders WANT marriages to fail (at least not mine). But my local ward has pledged GOBS of support to my wife and children if she were ever to leave me (the "apostate"). Can't say that really "helps" things (from my perspective).
It's just not the same going to any ol' church without my wife and children. (It's not even the same WITH them. For all its flaws, I generally LIKED the Mormon church!) By not worshipping with them on Sundays, what does that say (show, demonstrate) to my children about me, especially to my younger ones? "Why isn't daddy here? Doesn't he love God? Why isn't he "worthy"? Why doesn't he keep the sabbath day holy? I want to stay home like daddy!" Frankly, the fact that my wife STILL goes to church (even to the ONLY church on earth that WON'T let me attend their public meetings!) says a LOT more than I'd like to admit about the state of my own marriage.
I cannot tell you how much I HATE that wicked church that casts people out (like me). I hate it! (They actually thinking they're doing God a favor!) And for you Mormons out there reading this, who know me, who condone this, who have sided with your "prophet" in shunning me, shame on you! SHAME ON YOU!
But that's enough finger pointing. I have enough of my OWN sins to worry about, I don't need to be casting stones at others. (I could very well bury myself with stones, thank you very much.)
I know it doesn't sound very "loving." Maybe it isn't. Maybe it sounds (or is) self-pitying of me. But I'm losing a lot right now...and that hurts A LOT. Can't say I'm happy about it. I'm most assuredly not happy about it.
I'm so sorry, Will. This hurts so bad. Jesus is waiting for you to let him take this, just as soon as you're ready. I pray you can find him reaching for you. Cast out the destroyer and beg Jesus and his angels to surround you such that you can feel them. These abyss moments are precisely for that. I will be praying for you and your wife and children.
DeleteThis is really a sad situation, Will. I'm sorry.
ReplyDeleteI dunno, man. It took some persuasion, and I'm pretty sure my wife still doesn't fully believe me, but I finally was able to convince her that the never-ending talk of "follow the prophet, follow the prophet" was not making our lives or relationship with Christ any better.
I will say this, though. that for whatever reason my wife has a much harder time with the idea of doing things without the institution's official stamp of approval (like baptizing my 8-year-old by ourselves in a river like Jesus was baptized).
It's hard to convince ANY Mormon that authority from God is NOT vested only in the leaders of the Mormon Church. (Can you imagine a Paul or a Samuel the Lamanite appearing with REAL authority OUTSIDE the auspices of the established "church" being received by the LDS "prophets, seers and revelators" today? If he were a member of the LDS church proper, they would EXCOMMUNICATE him PRONTO!
DeleteYou have to actually study REAL church history to understand how "authority" has been "hijacked" over time...such that each sect now claiming to have "authority" only claims to have it handed down from one MAN to another. Yet, where among them is ANY man claiming that GOD HIMSELF has dispensed to him actual priesthood, as the prophets of old did, and bears the fruits to prove it?
NONE OF THEM! (At least, none of the leaders of the sects I know of.)
It's hard to admit for dyed-in-the-wool, true blue Mormons (like I was) that the LDS Church is as vapid and vacuous of REAL authority as the Jewish sects of Christ's day.
And if you say the Jews had "real" authority THEN because they "rightfully" had the priesthood, then you have to admit they were "justified" in killing Jesus. (After all, their leaders "condemned" Him, rightly or wrongly...and leaders, as a whole, can't lead the people astray, now, can they? Huh, current Quorum of the Twelve? Oh, if only God loved THOSE people enough to give them inerrant and unfailing leaders like we have! Think of all the people that could have been saved! But, alas, God didn't love them like He loves us, apparently. They (almost) all went astray...unlike this current crop of righteous, pious folk for whom destiny has waited for millennia and failure is no longer an option!
I would baptize my own younger children (just as I baptized my three oldest) if God authorized me to do so, my children asked for it, and my wife supported it. But I have no such support, either from God or my family. (Heck! Compared to other men my children know, I'm a heretic! An adulterer! A liar and a pedophile! Is there ANY name I have not yet been called? Oh, I guess "murderer" hasn't been mentioned...oh, wait! I was told I was "killing" people's faith, driving them away from the church, so they had to get rid of me! So, there you go, there's really no "too low to go" for me. I'm destined for the bottom, it seems.
I'm being torn to shreds right now. If my family situation, work situation, social situation were all healthy, I could weather this "religious" storm practically unscathed. But ALL THINGS are being required of me at this time...and I HATE IT! (But you know, I'm starting to get used to it. If my wife and kids don't wish to join me...or stay with me...I can't force them to. And, frankly, why would I want to?)
I'll tell you why: I love them. And I'm going to miss them.
I already do.
Yeah, wow, what a situation!
DeleteFrom my wife’s point of view, she married me specifically because I did believe in the church. And I did until one day I got an actual revelation. I discovered this much later (never having any clue whatsoever before this who Denver Snuffer was), but that revelation came to me when teaching about the Priesthood the next Sunday after the conference that Snuffer claimed the church lost it. It was like someone was yelling in my head over and over every moment I was awake “something is really, really, wrong wrong wrong with what you taught in Elder’s Quorum”. It came out of nowhere (I thought I taught a damned fine lesson), and it repeated over and over and over for about two weeks. I finally started to figure it out and then that never-ending repeating voice went away after saying one last thing: “read D&C 101 starting about in the middle”.
Here’s the thing: I’ve never claimed to my wife to have had a experience like this before or since. The church has basically taught her, ironically, that revelations like this can’t happen. So a better explanation of me about-facing my entire thinking is some sort of mid-life crisis. I think she’s conceded that’s what’s really going on.
But back to her point of view, it’s unnerving that one day her husband was this cool, upright, acceptable person that the neighbors even looked to for scriptural insight — perhaps even destined for church leadership(!). And now, overnight, he’s the neighborhood lunatic, an utter embarrassment and, frankly, less of a father than the rest of them because they all put their kids through all the official church things, but I’m sitting here begging my wife to please read this, and please read that, and that I must first obtain God’s word before acting further. I’m sure she wishes on a daily basis right now that I never had whatever experience I claim to have had. In fact, I’d venture to say that my wife at times thought that my very claim to God’s timely, loving divine intervention has ruined her and our children’s lives!
Not only that, but we have the ex-mormon friends a couple doors down who have basically accepted all the world’s official lines on everything. And to them I’m also a lunatic, irrational, unwilling to believe the obvious truth!
It frikkin’ sucks!
I can really relate with your writing, Will, probably because right now I feel like I’m in a similar situation where I’m positive everybody around me thinks I’m a freak — a very unworthy, unrighteous freak, at that. And like you, I’m kinda in this limbo state where I can say I know the LDS church is jacked up to hell, and I believe these scriptures and the restoration of Smith…. and… well that’s it. Just as you, I see nobody who exhibits the signs of having a real priesthood, though I do think people like Snuffer and Rob Smith have taught the truth that we must individually turn to God and receive.
Beautifully said, Benm. I've got that...and a whole lot more!
DeleteI don't know where to go from here. By the end of this year, I imagine I will be a lone man in the Garden of Eden, a man of sorrows, well acquainted with grief (again). I'm not happy about that prospect. Not at all!
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings and doeth them, I will show you to whom he is like.
ReplyDelete48 He is like a man who built a house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock, and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it; for it was founded upon a rock.
49 But he who heareth and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built a house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
Right now, Will, you're sounding kinda shaky.
DeleteLog,
DeleteAs you know, I'm losing my entire family. I know you mean well, but please save the lecture about "sounding kinda shaky" until AFTER the "funeral," okay? I AM shakey!
I HATE doing this!! It's the LAST thing in this world I EVER wanted to do! So please keep those coals nice and hot to heap on me another day, will you?
Thanks, bro.
:| Why do you think I open my mouth?
DeleteTo gloat over your misfortune, as you perceive it?
Or for some other bad reason?
What, exactly, do you think I am saying?
Nevertheless, as you will.
I think you open your mouth, Log, to reorient my focus on Christ -- and on doing His will -- not on seeking the pleasure or company of my wife and our children (desireable to me as that may be).
DeleteI'm grieving the "dead"...and part of me is dying, too! A HUGE part!
(I didn't think you were gloating, bro. I just couldn't handle ANOTHER failure at the moment. I've got too many already on my plate right now.)
Will, I practically cried as I read what you are going through. I'm appalled at the ward promising your wife all kinds of things if she will leave you, first off because that is so wrong, and secondly because they cannot replace a loving, husband in the home and cannot support her long term. Any support would disappear over time. Why are they making it their business anyway? Rhetorical question, I know why.
ReplyDeleteI truly feel like God is seeking out those that will turn to Him and follow Him rather than following men and their man made precepts, which means He is leading us away from the LDS Church. But that doesn't make it easy for us.
Although it hasn't been long, I feel like God sought me out and set my feet on a new path. Like I was wandering in strange paths before, but didn't know it. Which is strange, because it's so clear now.
I do know, however, if God hasn't spoken to someone (I'm thinking of family in the LDS faith) and been received, they absolutely will not believe that I am doing the right thing, turning away from the Church and seeking God/Jesus Christ directly.
I've been told by the Spirit not to talk with my family about it yet, (not married, so that is easy, I don't live with someone who would notice). It's hard though, so at sometime in the future, hopefully I will be able to open my mouth.
This may be how you are handling it, but for what it's worth, don't try to convince your wife that you are right. Just pledge your support for her and the children and let it go at that. Lot's of women in this Church live with inactive husbands, maybe she could look at it like that. I know it's different, but maybe it's worth a try.
Wishing you all the best, from a reader who doesn't usually post comments.
Dear Annonymous reader who doesn't usually post,
DeleteThank you for your kind words. My wife is not being "bribed," per se, merely supported as any member of the LDS Church would be with seven children and a (former?) husband who was "ex-ed" for "apostasy." To all of them, our marriage is "doomed," if not already "dead."
I'm the opposite of you. I was very vocal about my discoveries and thoughts (read my blog!) and got myself "shot down" early. (I was one of the first to go, in fact, seven months to the day after Denver Snuffer was ex-ed.) They didn't excommunicate me for my religious views alone; they simply didn't like me and suspected me of being sexually immoral, I presume, which is ironic because, whatever I may have been or have done in the past, I am certainly about as chaste a person as anyone can be in this world (without being celebate). I am100% faithful to my wife and have the good fortune of only being attracted to her. She remains the love of my life.
Some would say I'm an idolater. (I think I first suggested as much.) I think I love my wife too much. Should any man love his wife as much as he loves God? If push came to shove, I'd choose God over my wife. (I have!) But meanwhile, I think it's His will that I love her with all my soul for as long as I can.
Still, loving someone doesn't mean they love you back. It takes two to create, but only one to destroy.
I fear for my family. They are becoming unmoored from the gospel -- any gospel -- with me removed from the picture. I cannot fathom how ANY "church" can claim to be of God and treat members (and former members) the way the LDS church treats me. (It's a function of their leaders keeping the members too busy and distracted. How many times have you passed by a stranded motorist on your way to get to church on time? See my point?)
I miss my friends. (I'm sad they don't miss me.) Some say "It's your own fault!" I guess so. I'm stubborn that way.
Will, I'm the reader that doesn't post often, I would have put my name, but don't post often enough to know how to do so. Anyway, I'm Ellee.
ReplyDeleteI'm a 60 something member of the Church who never married. I know of the deep desire born and bred in women in the Church to marry, mostly to marry in the Church, but to marry anyone if that doesn't happen. I've seen many friends marry outside the Church when the opportunity to marry in the Church didn't happen, just so they could be married.
Which makes it ironic that I didn't go that route feeling in my younger years that if I didn't marry in the Church I would be happier not marrying at all. And here I am at this point knowing at some point, in some way, I will leave the Church. :)
But, anyway, the need for women in the Church to be married is tremendous. I can't fathom a woman in this Church, with a husband who loves and supports her and her children (7!) leaving him just because he left the Church unless she has some other way to support her children. So, unless she has an independent income, that says to me that there is something other than the fact that you left the Church driving this train. Either bribes or promises.
A woman's perspective, for what it's worth.
Ellee
He won't encounter any of the fruits of the spirit at church. Why not rejoice in the chance to keep him home and show him the power of God?
ReplyDeleteWill,
ReplyDeleteFigure out what it means to love (REALLY LOVE) your children (and your wife too) in the situation you find yourself in. Think long term. Someday they will realize you were trying to do the right thing.
Someday the buffoons at church who are trying to railroad you will be shown for the arrogant fools they very likely are. Your loved ones WILL remember your efforts. If you burn bridges with them, you will be hurting all involved.
I think Log was right...patience, long-suffering, LOVE unfeigned seems to be in order.
WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO LOSE BUT YOUR PRIDE, and who needs that?
Love ya bro.
James Russell Uhl
Will,
ReplyDeleteOnce, a long time ago, when I was about your age and losing my whole world, I cried (no I actually screamed) out to GOD...what do you want me to do!?
The answer came back as soft as snow falling on my face..."Come Unto Me".
Not always easy bro, but ALWAYS the right thing to do.
James Russell Uhl
Will,
ReplyDeletePerhaps you are full of hearing the opinions of others...
How about the Words of Christ?
3 Nephi 18:22: ye shall meet together oft; and ye shall not forbid any man from coming unto you when ye shall meet together, but shall suffer them that they may come unto you and forbid them not
3 Nep 18:23: ye shall pray for them and shall not cast them out
3 Nep 18:30: Nevertheless, ye shall not cast him out from among you, but ye shall minister unto him and shall pray for him unto the Father
3 Nep 18:32: Nevertheless, ye shall not cast him out of your synagogues, or your places of worship, for unto such shall ye continue to minister
3 Nep 18:25: I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me...and whoso breaketh this commandment suffereth himself to be led into temptation
3 Nep 18:33: keep these sayings which I have commanded you that ye come not under condemnation; for wo unto him whom the Father condemneth
3 Nep 18 should be a chapter of great hope unto you!
How about this:
3 Nep 12:4: blessed are all they that mourn, for they shall be comforted
3 Nep 12:10-11: blessed are they who are persecuted for my name's sake, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven. And blessed are ye when men shall revile you and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
3 Nep 12:44: I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you and persecute you.
From what I see in the words of the SAVIOR, the church which is casting out people who choose to follow the SAVIOR rather than the words of men, is in a very precarious position, and the SAVIOR has pronounced a WO against those who do what they are doing to you and many others.
Be of good cheer brother, for so persecuted they the Saints in former days.
James Russell Uhl
I could give you a great big hug right now, James! Thank you for encouraging my soul.
DeleteGood Will my brother in tribulation. Find comfort in Christ. I know what you are going through. Though I wasn't cast out of the church, my wife did leave me because of the my beliefs(the only difference between mine and yours is that I wasn't as openly vocal about them)and she is mainstream, lock step with the brethren. And I am here to tell you that all will be well with you, if your wife does decide to leave. He knows that you are suffering for your testimony to his name. And as you continue to seek him and love your enemies despite, he will give you comfort that shall far exceed any that you could possibly find with any other. You are loved more than you may even believe at this time. And know this, it is virtually impossible for him to forsake us since we are made of him and he is in us, and through us, and round about us,. etc. And as you know it is through the fellowship of his suffering that you will come to better understand him.
ReplyDeleteBe well Brother. I am praying for you. Keep up the good works.
EricDL