What of the atonement of Christ?

My friend, Matt Lohrke -- to whom I owe so much! -- had the following to say regarding the atonement of Christ and our becoming exactly like God. I gave my responses.

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Matt: "If we have to be "exactly" like [God], why the need for an atonement?  We need God precisely because we aren't like Him. He raised Himself and others from the dead, made the lame walk, gave sight to the blind and hearing to the deaf. He offered Himself as a sacrifice because there's nothing we can do to merit our salvation."

[Such "argumentation" is used by many to justify continuing to walk in sin.]

Me: "The atonement of Christ covers our past sins and vanishingly fewer future sins...until the point we are sanctified. Couldn't do it without Him! That's for sure.

The truth is, when you submit completely to Christ, you stop sinning immediately."

Matt: "Nephi, who I think we'd agree was a righteous man, lamented his sins and shortcomings.

Benjamin told his people there was no end to the ways we sin and fall short.

I think there's a toxic perfectionism in post-Mormonism groups. You've got Snuffer out there teaching you cannot be saved unless you become another Jesus."

Me: "I lament my sins and shortcomings, but I don't intentionally sin anymore. It is IMPOSSIBLE to look to Christ, love Him with all your heart, might, mind and strength, submit to Him in all things... and sin simultaneously. When you stop doing ANY of the first three, you invariably do the last.

Nephi lamented his sins and shortcomings. So what?

Benjamin told us there are a thousand ways to sin and fall short. So what?

Submit to Christ in ALL things. You will INSTANTLY stop sinning and NEVER sin again."

Matt: "If we are sinless there's no need for an atonement.  We have merited our own salvation by our own righteousness.

Writing later in his life, Nephi exclaimed:

'Nevertheless, notwithstanding the great goodness of the Lord, in showing me his great and marvelous works, my heart exclaimeth: O wretched man that I am! Yea, my heart sorroweth because of my flesh; my soul grieveth because of mine iniquities. I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily beset me. And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins; nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted...'

Of course we should always try to better and throw off the natural man.  Repentance is a daily process.

Only Jesus was sinless."

Me: "Ask yourself at every moment: "What would Christ have me do NOW?" And DO THAT! Even if you fail, you will not go wrong; it is not a sin to labor to do right. Christ will lead you to greater power and to greater truth, if you persist.

If you "follow" Nephi or Benjamin -- and "use" them to make "excuses" for continuing to sin -- you are damned.

There is no "need" to sin -- once you resolve to ALWAYS submit to Christ in ALL things.

And if you DON'T submit to Christ in ALL things, you're (ultimately) damned. You're not saved.

There are a thousand different "off ramps" along the highway to Heaven. If you take ANY of them (intentionally) -- and don't get back on the "strait and narrow" before you die -- you're damned."

Matt: "I don't follow Nephi or Benjamin, but I listen to them more than Rob Smith and Denver Snuffer.  They're both deceived.

Love the Lord with your heart, offer a broken heart and contrite spirit, recognize my dependence on God, endure to the end.  I follow a God who looks on the heart and nurses me along the way.

Good luck."

Me: "It's not about being perfect. It's about submitting to Christ.

When we submit to Christ in all things, we become perfect in Him.

Thus, he who lives without sinning is also the most humble.

'Love the Lord with your heart...'

Don't forget ALL your heart, plus your mind, might and strength! 

'...offer a broken heart and contrite spirit...'

What is that? It is NOT merely "feeling sorry" for your weaknesses and sins! It IS submitting to Christ in ALL things! Nothing more and nothing less.

'...recognize my dependence on God,...'

Yes.

'... endure to the end.'

Doing what? Looking to Christ in everything you think, say and do; loving Him with all your soul; and submitting to Him in ALL things. 

Anything less is NOT the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

'I follow a God who looks on the heart and nurses me along the way.'

"Nurses" you to do what?

If you truly love Christ with ALL your heart and mind, might and strength, you will not sin. Ever.

If you say you do, but still sin, you're a liar.

As we approach Christ, we are shown, with greater clarity and granularity, our shortcomings. As we instantly repent of our shortcomings, we do not sin. (This is how Christ grew from grace to grace. He did not possess all things at the beginning.) Only when we shirk our duty to assimilate new light and truth do we sin."

Matt: "Then we are all damned because only Christ is sinless.  

If we are all damned then the atonement was pointless and of no efficacy and God is a liar.

You are, of course, free to believe whatever you like and pursue your chosen path and worship whatever God you like."

Me: "'Then we are all damned...'

That is correct. (Conditionally, of course, because of the Fall.)

We are ALL damned (who know better) unless and until we come unto Christ and (sooner or later) are perfected (become sinless, that is, sanctified) in Him.

'...because only Christ is sinless.'

He is the only one who lived a perfectly sinless life beyond the age of accountability who possessed the capacity to commit sin.

But only those who become perfectly sinless in Him, being sanctified, are ultimately saved in the fullest sense.

'If we are all damned then the atonement was pointless and of no efficacy and God is a liar.'

This is a gross misunderstanding on your part.

No amount of "good works" you could do could ever atone for your past sins, neither for your future ones! (ONLY Christ's atonement could do that.)

But His atonement is NOT efficacious -- except for those who are NOT under the law AND for all those who fully repent of ALL their sins. (Otherwise there would be "sinners" in heaven! And that cannot be.)

Christ's atonement, therefore, more fully condemns the sinner who does NOT repent, rather than relieve him of his responsibility to repent of all of his sins.

'You are, of course, free to believe whatever you like and pursue your chosen path and worship whatever God you like.'

Thank you! (J/k)

Fortunately, all you need to do to "qualify" for Christ's sanctification and ultimate salvation is to simply and fully submit to His will in all things.

Nothing less will do. (You cannot serve two masters.)"

[That would have been a good place to end the discussion, but my friend continued.]

Matt: "I don't have a "gross misunderstanding." I understand it just fine. Like I said, you're free to follow whatever theology you like."

Me: "Yes, you do, my friend, if you persist in believing that sin is unavoidable, or that the atonement of Christ relieves you of your duty to repent of ALL of your sins in this life before you die. 

This is NOT an impossible task. You CAN submit to Christ in ALL things RIGHT NOW! (Count the cost. What will it take for you to "build the tower" or "win the war" RIGHT NOW? Give ALL THAT to Him!) What is holding you back? Or, in other words, what are you holding onto, other than Him?

Inasmuch as you sin, you are not saved (in the unconditional sense). Christ does NOT save us IN our sins, but FROM our sins. Forgiving us of our sins does us NO GOOD -- if we return like a dog to his vomit or a sow to her mire. ONLY inasmuch as we become sanctified and cleansed FROM our sins -- so that we do them NO MORE -- are we saved. (There is much more which could be said and understood about this.)

In the end, ANY sin, even ALL sin, results from failing to submit to Christ in ALL things.

So that is ALL you have to do to be saved. He has done the rest.

[I would have liked to have ended it there, but he continued.]

Matt: "I'll take my chances.

He's hasn't done "the rest," (thats a very Mormon belief), He's done everything.

I can do nothing to be saved. To believe I can is to deny the atonement and I won't do that. I won't make a mockery of it.

As Aaron told the Lamanite King, 'man cannot merit anything of his own.'"

Me: "You have misunderstood the atonement of Christ, my brother, and our obligation to walk in holiness before Him.

Else, why did Alma teach his son:

"6 And so it is on the other hand. If he hath repented of his sins, and desired righteousness until the end of his days, even so he shall be rewarded unto righteousness.

 7 These are they that are redeemed of the Lord; yea, these are they that are taken out, that are delivered from that endless night of darkness; and thus they stand or fall; for behold, they are their own judges, whether to do good or do evil.

 8 Now, the decrees of God are unalterable; therefore, the way is prepared that whosoever will may walk therein and be saved.

 9 And now behold, my son, do not risk one more offense against your God upon those points of doctrine, which ye have hitherto risked to commit sin.' (Alma 41)

Read the entire chapter. Substitute the word "salvation" for "restoration" to get a fuller understanding."