My wife asked me this afternoon: "How long can we keep this up?" (We still go to Church every Sunday. Helped clean the chapel this morning, in fact.)
My wife's not an "unbeliever". Neither am I.
But, like me, she has nowhere else to turn...because we both have unbreakable testimonies of the Book of Mormon. (What other church would have us? Imagine us quoting Nephi in Baptist Sunday School! How would that go over?)
In fact, her family, born-again Christians all, wonder how on earth we keep going to the LDS Church after they excommunicated me. No Baptist would stand for that! They'd just find another church to attend.
But we can't. We don't have that luxury. The LDS Church keeps permanent records. They follow you everywhere you go...and can go!
We thought about changing our names, moving elsewhere, getting re-baptized. (We'd become remarkable "new" LDS converts...who already know everything!) But our kids would give us away. Plus, that wouldn't be "fair" or "honest", would it? The Spirit wouldn't be with us, perhaps. (But didn't Abinadi come to the church in disguise? Why? Because they kicked him out, too!)
We are now like Lehi's family, in the wilderness, on our own. Rejected by "the brethren", as it were.
Where can we go?
How long can my wife stay in the LDS Church (without them forcing her out, too)? Until the next temple recommend interview?
"Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual...ahem, how's your husband doing, by the way?...whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?"
What's she going to say?
"Oh, him? I hardly know him! We just sleep together! He brought me into this Church...and fathered all my children...he baptized them!...and teaches us the gospel every day! So, no, I don't 'support, affiliate with, or agree with' him in the least, if that's what you're asking."
How can an organization we wished no ill treat us like enemies? How can a leadership who (heretofore) received only our "support and sustaining vote" regard us as infidels?
How long can one suspend disbelief in such an organization?
“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.” -- Eric Hoffer
I wish that were not true. I (still) hope it's not.
I mean that.
Where can we go?
How long can my wife stay in the LDS Church (without them forcing her out, too)? Until the next temple recommend interview?
"Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual...ahem, how's your husband doing, by the way?...whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?"
What's she going to say?
"Oh, him? I hardly know him! We just sleep together! He brought me into this Church...and fathered all my children...he baptized them!...and teaches us the gospel every day! So, no, I don't 'support, affiliate with, or agree with' him in the least, if that's what you're asking."
How can an organization we wished no ill treat us like enemies? How can a leadership who (heretofore) received only our "support and sustaining vote" regard us as infidels?
How long can one suspend disbelief in such an organization?
“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.” -- Eric Hoffer
I wish that were not true. I (still) hope it's not.
I mean that.
Hi, I only recently discovered your blog. Your experiences are very poignant to me. I’m not in the same place as you. I agree with what you’ve written about the Gospel, but I haven’t been excommunicated (yet). So, I can’t truly empathize with what you’re going through. Thus, I have no right to offer suggestions or advice. Yet, I’m going to offer some anyway. Feel free to reject it if it doesn’t ring true to you.
ReplyDeleteIf there is one thing I’ve learned from Denver Snuffer, it is that it is much better to seek the praise of God than the praise of men. You have been cast out of the Church. You saw the flaws, pointed them out, and were “disciplined” for it. Yet, just because the Church has cast you out does not mean God has cast you out. Focus your attention, and the attention of your family, on Him. He can bring you greater happiness and fulfillment than the Church can, anyway.
And blessed are all they who are persecuted for my name’s sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
And blessed are ye when men shall revile you and persecute, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake;
For ye shall have great joy and be exceedingly glad, for great shall be your reward in heaven; for so persecuted they the prophets who were before you. (3 Nephi 12:10-12)
Having learned what I have about the Church, I no longer feel much fulfillment there, though I still attend the meetings. I have tried to turn my attention to God. God asks more of me than the Church does, but I have to believe that it will all be worthwhile.
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. (1 Corinthians 2:9)
Hang in there. You’re not alone. The Comforters come to us when we need comfort. Maybe now is the best time for you to ask about that.
Thank you. Your encouragement is sorely needed...and dearly appreciated.
ReplyDeleteDid you change your blog so that more people can respond?
ReplyDeleteThank you.
I just want you to know I've been following this. I know it sounds naive, but I really hope Jesus comes soon. If He does not, all those who love Him best will be kicked out of the church.
Hang on. I have a different situation, but it has still been brutal, and I pray for all of you, all of *you* "out there" who are experiencing this or have experienced this. You know, rejection is what Jesus did experience while He was in the flesh. I know the New Testament is muddled, and the Book of Mormon doesn't speak much of His earthly ministry in the East.
But Isaiah (even those parts found in the Book of Mormon) make it clear He would be despised.
I have not been excommunicated, but I have been cast out (long story)--
I wouldn't trade what I have learned about Jesus with the 'fellowship' I used to enjoy. My family also continues to go to church. It is NOT easy for them.
I just realized that, if Jesus doesn't come soon, my entire family has really no 'future'. It's a very sad thought, and it's not how 'normal Mormons' live, but it is very true.
God bless you, Good Will.
I only turned "off" the setting that required me to "moderate" any comment before it was posted.
DeleteI'm not very computer "smart", and I hadn't seen the 'anonymous' or 'name' section, and when I did I was pleased.
DeleteWhatever you did, thank you.
The only recourse I think disciples of Christ really have, in your situation, is home churches, as Christians did in Paul's day. (Especially as these thoughtcrime excommunications escalate.) No hierarchy, no real organization. Just believers gathering together to read scripture, pray, and sing, as directed by the Holy Spirit.
ReplyDeleteThere are so many people right now who don't feel comfortable, who don't feel safe, in their wards. I've been following the stories shared in response to this post, and the sheer number of aching hearts just about breaks my own:
http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/2014/06/i-love-the-gospel-but-i-dont-feel-safe-at-church-because/
Making havens for one another in our homes seems the only answer, as the organization is so calcified, the culture so critical.
Happy Father's Day. May the Father of us all bless and keep you: husband, wife, and children, all.
Will,
ReplyDeleteIf one really understands the baptismal covenant, it is between you and Christ. As a residual...you enter into the Church. Unjust excommunication does not remove the covenant, regardless of Church records. The sacrament too, if you read it carefully in 3rd Nephi will show that when the risen Lord explains no one who has not accepted the baptismal covenant shall not partake of it. It has nothing to do with an institution's idea of worthiness; it is only the baptismal covenant. So where does that leave you? Since you still have your Priesthood (that cannot be taken away, only via D&C 121), I suggest you administer the Sacrament at home for yourself and continue on your journey. You see everyone thinks it is so sad and alarming that all this has happened. I suppose socially it may be, but the reason everyone is so alarmed is that they are still tied to the institution to generate their own status of feelings. Men are that they might have joy. You have partaken of the "new and everlasting covenant of Baptism and the reception of the Holy Ghost is yours. Most people, if they knew this important event would be crawling to be in your position.
I repeat. The happiness people in the Church employ is based on their relationship to the institution. Start living. You have more power than you might suppose. I am with you.
I have been pondering the risks as it relates to one who is firmly committed to the gospel, who loves the temple, who believes the Book of Mormon with all her heart, but follows blogs whose discourse and commentary explores varies doctrines and ideas not in the standard LDS conversation.
ReplyDeleteIs my temple recommend or membership in jeopardy because I'm tired of the weak milk offered by the Correlation Program lessons and enjoy a bit of meat that comes from books and blogs that drive me to search the scriptures deeper and study more?
Is my temple recommend or membership in jeopardy because I get the inspired to do good, increase my faith, and follow the Savior by believer dialogue and comments on blogs which are considered "Dissident"?
Is my temple recommend or membership in jeopardy because I use information from such sites to strengthen my RS lessons with a bit of meat, much to the delight of the sisters?
Is my temple recommend or membership in jeopardy because I go to these, (so call “Dissident”) blogs and books for discussion and possible answers to questions I have... since none of my leaders are willing to discuss “Off Topic” subjects?)
Is there a better approach the Church could take than “kick out or beat up” believers?
PERHAPS: “The content in these blogs and books do not represent the official position of the Church. Proceed in your study with care and discretion, relaying upon the Spirit to discern what the Lord would have you do in relationship to what you read and participate in.”
I think the out come would surprise them. If nothing more it would calm the division that seems to be dividing the Saints at this time.
I feel for you and your family. I have so enjoyed your blog and find your discussions to be insightful and respectful. Many prayers are with you and your family.
Will,
ReplyDeleteEnjoy your blog. I was prepared to be just where you are last month when I went in for TR interview. I was TOLD by the Spirit to answer the questions honestly and I did. However, I was prepared to name Denver, Rock and others like you in answer to q#7, but the Spirit counseled me to name…JESUS CHRIST…as the dissident I follow and seek to affiliate with, and I recvd my new TR in spite of telling the truth! "Do you have a testimony of TSH?" No, I do not but I am willing to sustain him as the head of The Church (Inc.). I and my wife still have our TRs, and we can barely stand to go to church anymore. We have talked about leaving but I still have ancestors who need ordinances…and so we try to persevere. All in all, I believe you are not in a bad place at all, for those who are WITH you greatly outnumber those who are AGAINST you.
JR
Thank you, JR (and others). Your words are comforting.
DeleteBy I cannot allow your comfort to render me "complacent". My only hope is to come unto Christ and be received of Him. That is the only thing that will make all this -- even joining the Church and doing all that we have done over the years -- worth it!
If not, then our "works", good and bad, will simply be "the works of men". We will have joy in them for a season...and then it will all be over.
Every time I see a certain missionary in our ward I ask him "Are you doing the Lord's work? or your own?" "The Lord's work", he says. (What else can he say?) But the point is critical.
God works by power. Men do God's work by faith. Faith and power are evidence of doing God's work. Without exercising faith -- or power -- God's work remains undone.
There are many "good works" men will do that will not qualify as God's work...because it was the work of men.
That being said, I am simply amazed at all the wonderful things people do: the movies made, songs song, things produced, etc.
But what is important? Jesus said it was feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick, the imprisoned and the afflicted. Are we doing that?
If not, then our religion is vain.
Amen.
DeleteAnd Jesus gives His beloved rest. Talk to Him about that sometime soon. It's a beautiful thing, amidst the storm and dilligence.
yes for holding our breath to not worry or be distress, letus keep us in peace of the lord and sowing our seed daily in joy to reap later big harvest in Jesus name and be thankful for his good helth with us by grace,thanks and bless,keijo sweden
ReplyDelete