Creation and Progression

Decades ago I read in the scriptures that all spirit is matter; consequently God has a physical body of flesh and bones. Because I taught chemistry and physics -- the sciences of matter and material laws -- I sought to integrate this "spiritual" understanding with my "scientific" training, writing down my musings in my journal.

As a teacher I considered it my "duty" to bear witness of the truth at all times and in all places. Consequently, I compiled these writings into a pamphlet, which I shared with any of my students who wanted them. (No wonder I got fired from that job! I was a "fool" for Christ's sake!)

These entries reflect my imperfect understanding of the material. Perhaps the greatest "leap" I have made since then is realizing that Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever in every sense: He was sinless, magnificent, divine, glorified, and possessing of a "spiritual" (though tangible) body both before and after His mortal ministry! (This was witnessed by Mahonri Moriancumer and by Christ's apostles, among many others.)

This post includes two journal entries (from 1987 and 1991).

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[1987 January 5: Monday: 2015 hrs.] Tonight as I read from Joseph Smith’s “Elder King Follet” discourse, I realized this eternal truth: God our Father, the very Elohim of heaven, once stood in our midst as we were gathered in the eternal worlds as intelligences.

It has often been asked, “What is ‘intelligence’?” Imagine the whole universe filled with element. We know that some of this element is matter as we naturally know it, the dust of the earth. We have heard also that spirit is matter, although a more pure and refined kind of matter. And as we gaze throughout the universe, we discover piercing the darkness another substance—light—some light which we can see, and other light which we know we cannot see. We can suppose that this light which we can and cannot see is also element, which would make it an element far different than that dust to which we are accustomed. However, we may find that this very dust we conjecture to be so very different from light may in fact be a more organized form of light and that it—this dust of the earth—depends upon this very light for its existence—as do the herbs of grass depend upon the noon-day light of the sun.1

This is not far fetched when one considers that the air is full of light: gamma, x-ray, ultraviolet and infra-red, microwave and radio, all whizzing through our atmosphere in a constant and steady stream. We have harnessed much of this light and have proven that, indeed, like other forms of matter, light, too, can be organized and harnessed and its element utilized. We can imagine that there are many more kinds of light in the spectrum that man has yet to discover, light that has far broader and more powerful effects upon us than do these terrestrial glows.

For example, in the same way that we utilize microwaves to bombard our food and thus cook it for us, could not God use some type of light to speak to our minds and give us ideas? Could not ideas themselves be organized forms of light? Then what of truth, wisdom, and intelligence? Are these not organized forms of matter? And mercy and justice? Are these not laws by which these elements abide? If the truth were to be known and plainly manifest, we would see that all these are, indeed, forms of matter, and that light and truth are matter reduced to its purest and simplest form, the building blocks of intelligence.

It is in this very way that our intelligences were organized: light cleaveth unto light, truth embraces truth, intelligence cleaveth unto intelligence.2 In this way we started from the smallest germ of life—light, truth, intelligence—in the beginning, and thus acquiring, accumulating, and cleaving unto like elements, we progressed in our stature, nobility, and glory.

As our Father Elohim looked out upon this vast assemblage of intelligences, He spied each of us with compassion and desired that each one of us—these intelligences—should have a spiritual body as He then had. Having lived in the eternal worlds with Elohim, having existed from the beginning, yea, having existed forever with God,3 having neither beginning of days nor end of years, we knew Him and knew that we could trust Him to lead us on to exaltation and eternal lives, for thus we had seen Him progress. Our Father Elohim looked out upon the intelligences round about Him and, desiring their total happiness and fulfillment, set out to so organize conditions such that these intelligences could take upon themselves bodies of spirit as He did and pass through like conditions as those through which He once passed so as to give opportunity for these spirits to grow and advance as He had done.4 Having done so, the concourses of intelligences were called together, all gathered from the vast regions of space, from the vast orders of the different kingdoms, each in their separate spheres.5 These were given the choice, to decide if they were willing to take upon themselves bodies of spirit.

Like planets colliding, like myriad rivers all rolling into one, like breezes mounting on the shoulders of massive mountains to bring forth the mighty winds, these intelligences, I believe—each one of us!—rushed forward in vast and innumerable union, driven by attraction to the forces of greater light and understanding. Willingly, we ran to be given birth by the Father and Mother of Heaven.6

After birth we were instructed by the Father of Heaven as to the nature of His plans. I believe that as each of our spirits grew and progressed, we advanced from glory to glory, enlarging upon intelligence with intelligence, being capacitated with a spiritual body to make the acquisition of light and truth easier and more fulfilling.7

Ultimately we would advance until coming nigh unto being like God Himself. The first of these to so advance was Jehovah. He was the Firstborn Son of God in the spirit, being the first to come forth in spiritual birth, and He was One both mighty and strong. Each spirit was given his free agency, to follow the Father if he did so choose. And many did so choose. And many others did not.

However, because we co-existed with God, having lingered with Him in the eternal worlds before and having trusted in Him then to guide us until we reached our goal; because we have known Him and have chosen Him to be our Leader and our God, surely He must now be our most trusted and faithful Friend! Surely Elohim is the greatest of all, above all, over all, the God of all. I do not have the words to say how surely Elohim is our greatest Friend. He is Everything, because He has given us everything. Everything we are today is because of His grace and perfect love, His using His perfect talents for our benefit and our perfection.

In the ranks of those spirits there gathered eons past, from which were chosen the Messiah and the prophets and leaders of now and old, were also found spirits impure, spirits not suited, ill-equipped, and unwilling to become like God. Jehovah knew this, and while it is in the heart of all the Gods that every soul should taste of Deity, not one being can ever be compelled to godhood in the divine economy of heaven. The plan of salvation comes with its preparations made in the kingdoms of our Father for those unworthy and unwilling of exaltation. There, in the kingdoms telestial and terrestrial, and in the lower realms of the celestial, will be found those who cared not or could not, by virtue of themselves, attain unto exaltation in the highest glory.

The kingdom of heaven is like unto a net which, once cast into the sea, brings forth many fish, all of different varieties and sizes.8 These are taken and sorted into three baskets, and the bad fish are removed altogether. This parable is in likeness of the three degrees of glory, into which the spirits of men are sorted, and the evil ones, the sons of perdition, who remain filthy still9 even at the end, these shall be cast out altogether into outer darkness. The kingdom of heaven is likened unto three loaves into which a little leaven is placed until it leaveneth the whole.10 This also refers to the influence of the gospel, the plan of salvation, in the world, preparing and training the sons of men for glory in the eternal worlds: the telestial, the terrestrial, and the celestial.11

The great plan of the Eternal Father is to bring salvation and glory unto all His children.12 To some He will give much, all that He has. These are they of the celestial, in the highest degree.13 To others He will give much as well, but not of His fullness. These only bask in the reflected light of the sun as does the moon, these of the terrestrial.14 And to others He gives what they are willing to receive, for lack of faith, the wages of sin—these of the telestial, the least glory of heaven.15 Those that remain—the sons and daughters16 of perdition—are they that, once having put their hand to the plow, look back and return to their former loves. These are they who have tasted of the joy of Jesus, who have gazed into heaven, who have been made partakers of the heavenly gift and who have known God as they are known, and then have turned away. These are they who have no more cloak for their sins, for they know the God of heaven and His will and refuse the light. These that then turn away must deny the sun while it yet shines.17 These are they that are unworthy still. These are unfit for the kingdom of God, even unfit for a kingdom of glory. These are misfits, lovers of darkness, twisted souls, perverted spirits from ages past who have arrived at the fulness of their days, damned to endure eternal wrath as God has so ordained to be dispensed upon them in the regions of outer darkness, according to His will.18

[1991 June 4: Tuesday: 0747 hrs.] We spoke of the spiritual constitutions of beings - of the measure of light and truth which is in man - and of how that measure dictates how men shall act in any situation, indeed, how they will administer their agency; and that though at any time they may have opportunity to make other, more favorable choices according to that agency, due to former, poorer choices they may not have power to do otherwise, to do anything else. In the broadest sense, therefore, each of us - though we may be able to do better than we now do - we always do the very best we can do at any given time, even when we utterly fail, even when we self-destruct.19

For when we do act in any wise, we demonstrate our insufficiencies, those spiritual voids of light and truth we carry with us from beyond the veil. So many factors affect our reasoning, our feeling, and our faith - factors both spiritual and physical, both intellectual and mortal. These factors influence how we act and how we respond; they dictate the measure of our action and of our progress. We can act no better nor be no greater than that light and truth we have absorbed to act upon.20

Only God Himself is able now to comprehend the full extent of our abilities, able to weigh the full measure of the light and truth we now enjoy. But someday we shall pierce the veil. And at Judgement Day we shall see as we are seen, we shall know as we are known,21 and we shall know that God’s judgement is just, that His assessment of our performance, based upon our abilities - upon the light and truth we have received - is a perfect one.22 For He is our Creator; He created us from the beginning, comprising us in spirit form from the luminous matter of which we are composed. He is the Father of lights.23 And He knows our composition perfectly.

In the beginning, each intelligence24 - that compound of light and truth then assembled into one distinct sphere at spiritual creation’s dawn - was invited to be fitted to spirit form - was given spirit birth - according to the measure of its intelligence, according to the highest order of being for which each intelligence did qualify. And each species, every one, was formed in perfect simplicity in the beginning and was given agency - indeed, each intelligence already had agency - to act according to its will and pleasure, to do according to its desire, to become whatsoever it willed and could within the confines of eternal law.25

For light cleaves unto light. And truth embraces truth. Like great and rolling snowballs, compounds of light and truth gather by natural means to form intelligence - the light of truth - in its most basic form. Intelligence cannot be created,26 only expanded upon (or diminished, through the effects of disobedience and the role of the wicked one).27 The more complex and comprehensive the light and truth, the more complete and intelligent the being.28

Consider the first primeval moment in eternity when newly formed spiritual beings would have been confronted with the first opportunity to make a choice. Imagine, then, that the choice there proffered to them would not have been one either of good or of evil, but rather one of preference, one of which color, for example, either would prefer. One being, we will suppose, in this moment of decision chose one color and the other likewise and equally flawless being chose another - their dissimilar decisions due principally to the differences in their composted characters, even to the differentiations of their individual stores of light and truth.

From that point onward, the experiences of these two beings would be markedly different, one having chosen one course and the other, another.29 Inasmuch as they continued to make similar subsequent decisions, they might have walked along parallel paths, but those paths would forever after have been different as well, even as their personalities differed. In short order, thus would evolve many gradations and variations of character, both among and within developing species.

These two beings would continue to progress - light cleaving unto light, truth embracing truth - until such time that such beings were capable of making the highest order of elections - those of moral magnitude, decisions of right and wrong, divisions between good and evil. Given this ability, each thereafter would have the power either to self-create or to self-destruct. It is a fact of life that the full spectrum of creation endowed with this agency has been filled with creatures pursuing to varying degrees one of these two alternatives.

From the greatest luminaries in the heavens - those composted sums of light and truth found to be gathered more greatly than any others - were drawn the elements from which were spawned the spirits of the Gods, divine offspring, the children of God. These were the greatest of all. Only these had power within themselves to make the mightiest of decisions, only these had the power to make moral choices between good and evil, to comprehend in their fullness the concepts of right and wrong, justice and mercy, love and hate.

Imagine the elephant and the dog. Cannot these creatures feel affection, devotion, and concern? I believe so. Even so, imagine how our own reactions differ from those of the canine and the pachyderm. So do those of God - even more so! - differ in their fullness from ours. Indeed, Brigham Young suggested that inasmuch as we differ in intellect and in character from the lowly ant, so does God differ from us. However, when the veil is parted and we are overwhelmed with our former knowledge, when the scales of mortality are lifted from off our eyes and the shackles of this clay are removed from off our minds, we shall see and comprehend how clearly God and we are very much alike.30

1 Or as we depend upon animals and plants for our existence. [1990 April 3]

See the explanation to Fig. 5 of Facsimile No. 2 of the Book of Abraham. [1990 April 3] 

2 See D&C 88:40. [1990 April 3] 

3 See D&C 93:29. [1990 April 3] 

4 See Abraham 3:24-26. "God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself." (Joseph Smith, Teachings Of The Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 354.) [1997 August 16] 

5 See D&C 93:30. [1990 April 3] 

6 In a related vein, can it be that exalted beasts—the animals, the birds, the fishes, once having undergone resurrection and having gained eternal bodies of flesh and bone—likewise reproduce their spiritual offspring, indeed, becoming gods over their creations, begetting in their own images the spiritual beings that shall one day inhabit the physical bodies formed on mortal worlds? Going one step further, being that Man of Holiness is the greatest intelligence of them all, does He not assist these exalted beasts in fulfilling their divine calling, the procreation of their species, by assembling planets, stars, and galactic orders for the purpose of providing mortal spheres of learning for these? And again, could it be that these very beasts, now exalted, in fact come down to these physical premortal spheres and by a means hereafter to be revealed actually participate in the process of assembly, of physical organization, of the bodies in which the beastly spirits shall dwell? Indeed, did not Father and Mother come down, partake of substances found upon the earth and, by so doing, engender within Themselves the elements combined by which They gave birth to the body into which Adam did enter, a premortal man? If so, then what of Eve? What use held the rib taken from Adam's side? What did Father and Mother use it for? If Adam's body was begotten through premortal physical birth, then was not Eve's? But then, what of Jesus, the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh? Was not Adam's body flesh? And was not he begotten? Perhaps "Only Begotten in the flesh" refers only to being born of a mortal woman, which Heavenly Mother is not. [1990 March 5] 

7 Just as our physical bodies enable us to more easily ingest the substances of this earth—the vitamins, the minerals, the fluids, and other matter—as well as to seek out, to mobilize, and to appreciate other elements in this physical universe, so, too, did undergoing transformation into spiritual bodies enable us to expand upon our intelligences, to seek out, to mobilize, and to better appreciate spiritual elements and forces that exist in the spiritual realm. We were organized into spiritual bodies, capacitated with power we beforehand did not have. 

Think of the new-born babe: What power does it have to operate its newly formed body for the purposes of seeking out, mobilizing, and appreciating all that exists in the world? Almost none! And so we, too, found ourselves powerless to fully use our newly acquired spiritual bodies. Only inasmuch as we received nourishment, properly used our agency in the acquisition and implementation of light and truth, and persisted in patience were we able to grow and mature spiritually in that premortal sphere. Those who successfully matured to spiritual adulthood in that sphere of influence were privileged to come here, to receive physical bodies, and to continue the process of acquiring and implementing light and truth. The focus of activity hasn't changed, only the locus! We must still spend our days in acquisition, implementation, and dissemination of light and truth if we are to continue to progress toward godhood. [1990 March 6] 

8 See Matthew 13:47-48. [1990 March 6] 

9 We all become "filthy" by reason of the sin which conceives in our hearts (Moses 6:55). The great atoning sacrifice of Christ makes possible for nearly all of Father's children (save those destined for outer darkness, who remain "filthy still") to be cleansed and to be forgiven of all their sins, upon condition of repentance. Eventually, those who repent to the fullest of their ability and who are not guilty of shedding innocent blood, which is the unpardonable sin, will be sanctified in Christ. The remaining flaws in their characters will be "covered over" in Him; they will be endowed with the sanctifying spirit of Deity, that overwhelming influence which shall finally purge, last and forever, all inclination to do evil and which shall imbue the blessed recipient with the eternal strength and determination to bless others' lives forever. These most successful shall inhabit the celestial world. As each one of us—all the host of the human family (save those few)—must eventually and most certainly one day repent, bend the knee, humbly recognize the preeminence of Christ as their Savior and their Lord, and ultimately render unto that Holy God His just due, namely, obedience, why, then, should we not do so now? Why not now, while the prize of eternal lives, of exaltation, of celestial glory is yet being offered? Why not turn unto God now, repent of all human folly, and follow righteousness while it is yet day and the cherished objective may still be obtained? To procrastinate the day of repentance, to put off coming unto Christ, is the greatest foolishness, the uttermost waste. Since we all must come unto Him, anyway (if not until the Great and Last Day, so be it), why not come unto Him now, when doing so provides the highest rewards and the greatest promises for happiness and joy? [1990 March 6] 

10 See Matthew 13:33. [1990 March 6] 

11 See John 14:2; 1 Corinthians 15:39-42; 2 Corinthians 12:2. [1990 March 6] 

12 Knowing this, I feel much better. I feel much better to know that my Father is approachable, that He is there! Indeed, that He wants me to call upon Him! This is His plan! He wants me to become like Him! That is why He made this life possible: to help bless each of us to taste the joys of Deity and to rise to the highest heaven. [1987 January 5] 

13 See D&C 76:50-70, 92-96. [1990 March 6] 

14 See D&C 76:71-80, 91, 97. [1990 March 6] 

15 See D&C 76:81-89, 98-112. [1990 March 6] 

16 Do "daughters of perdition" exist? Has ever in the history of mankind a member of the feminine order beheld God in His fullness, comprehended the light of the Son as at noon day, and then has turned her face therefrom, reverting altogether to her wicked ways, denying the gift? I think not. [1990 March 5] 

Then again, having seen what I have of womanly treachery, I think again, “Maybe so!” [1998 January 31] 

17 This means that they must be so contrary to truth and right that they can, in analogy, look toward the blazing sun at noon day and say "I see only darkness.” These are spirits of the most bitter kind; they rebel against all good, will not comprehend truth, cannot be persuaded to do right, neither by grace nor by glory, not by persuasion nor by power of might, neither by the combined testimonies of all heaven and earth. These, simply, cannot be saved. Fortunately, very few souls, once having risen to the greatest heights of spiritual maturity, later retrogress—self-destruct—in the throes of spiritual senility. To do so—in the face of the promises, after having tasted of Heaven, once having known and having felt the Power of His Goodness, having comprehended even the Omnipotent God in His fullness, having been bathed in the overwhelming element of His Love, and then to turn away into darkness, unto weakness—is craziness of the most comprehensive kind. [1990 March 6] 

18 See D&C 88:16-32. [1990 March 6] 

19 Thus our performance becomes the full measure of our potential. We will be judged for our works - not for what we could have done, not for what we almost did, but for what we did do. Our works will save us - and our works will condemn us. “For our words will condemn us, yea, all our works will condemn us...and our thoughts will also condemn us” (Alma 12:14). We are what we do. And what we do is always our best - even when it’s not! It is the measure of our true ability under every condition and in every circumstance. [1991 June 12] 

Consider the rodent, rambling down corridors and behind couches, until it encounters the trap, baited with cheese. Can anyone reasonably expect the beast to do any better than to try to retrieve the morsel - to its own demise? No! For the thing lacks sufficient intelligence to comprehend its situation, to assess the real and present danger of its desire. What it lacks it usually cannot gain by experience - for traps are rarely forgiving. When the trap does, on occasion, forgive and the rat escapes, the beast may learn a lesson - and thus increase in wisdom as it augments its intelligence. 

In many ways, we are all like the rodent: constrained by carnal impediment, limited by lesser intellectual development, and unfavorably affected by unfortunate circumstance. Weaknesses of these kinds beset all of us to some degree. Inasmuch as they do, we are prone to failure and limited in our abilities. [1991 June 5] 

20 Satan himself was the preeminent victim of his own “incompleteness.” With vast intelligence, but also full of pride, he was utterly devoid of humility and wholly barren of meekness. Despite his eccentricities of greatness, his weaknesses were greater, rendering him unfit for the next stage of human development: mortality. Those of us who have made it this far - who have taken upon ourselves bodies of flesh and blood - have proven ourselves at least worthy enough to know mortality. Likely we yet carry with us many of the flaws and imperfections under which we labored in premortality. Surely each of us harbors in his nature some imperfection, some poorly developed attribute of character wanting to be improved. Inasmuch as we fail to detect and to correct these flaws, we are frustrated in our progress, we are hindered in our pursuits, we are handicapped even as the blind who cannot see and the deaf who cannot hear. But inasmuch as we learn truth - and apply it - the truth will make us free (John 8:32). [1991 June 5] 

21 “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known” (I Corinthians 13:12). [1991 June 5] 

22 See Mosiah 27:31; Alma 12:15; D&C 88:49-50. [1991 June 5] 

23 See D&C 67:9. [1991 June 5] 

24 “Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be” (D&C 93:29). [1991 June 5] 

25 “Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light. And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation” (D&C 93:31-32). [1991 June 5] 

26 For light and truth are the basic building blocks of all existence, the substance from which all things are made! (The greatest lesson of natural physics begins with understanding that all things - all spirit, even every grain of sand - are nothing more than organized light and truth!) Light and truth are in their purest form. “All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence” (D&C 93:30). That which is darkness and falsehood is cancer and chaos, the disorganization and devolution of light and truth. All darkness and falsehood stand in opposition to light and truth, without which opposition there could be no perfection, no existence, and no agency. The glory of God - or, in other words, the intelligence of God - is the gradation of light and truth which He commands in contrast to the darkness and falsehood which surround Him. His glory is to gather all light and truth unto Himself, to provide means whereby all light and truth may be exalted in its highest and most perfect form - or, in other words, the immortality and eternal life of man (see Moses 1:39). 

Even so, this knowledge - the nature of our primitive existence - has no saving power unless we repent, unless we make available to ourselves the salvation and the atonement which is in Christ. Six most blessed (and most pernicious) words are these: “Christ will atone for my sins”. How blessed to know that as we expand upon our intelligence, eradicate from our existence every weakness, and gather to us every goodly form of light and truth, Jesus Christ will atone for our mistakes! He will compensate our failings, stand before the elements and the judgement bar of God and say, “These are mine! I have won them, and they are redeemed in me! I will take away their sin and make them clean and whole!” Through time and through testing, through the mercy of Christ’s atonement, we can avail ourselves of this opportunity to grasp perfection of life and fullness of character; we can become whole in Christ; we can achieve exaltation, possessing all knowledge, all wisdom, all might, and all dominion. We can have all things - and be excused for our past failings - if we are willing, if we are committed, if we are unceasing in our cause to repent. 

Thus the perdition and the perniciousness of those who say, “Christ will atone for my sins,” but who have not repented, nor are trying to repent. These are in the gall of bitterness, those who falsely claim to rely upon Christ to correct the awful effects of their misdeeds, but who make no attempt to repent of their evil actions nor of the inclinations which obligate them to rely upon that blessed atonement. Nephi warned of these characters: “And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God - he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few strips, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God...O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell!” (2 Nephi 28:8, 15). 

Even we who have repented and who are yet repenting - those Nephi calls the “few, who are the humble followers of Christ” - must needs be careful. For such are subject to falling, for “they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men” (2 Nephi 28:14). Inasmuch as we turn, even a little, from the teachings of Christ, letting loose the iron rod of the gospel from our grasp, we do fall. [1991 June 5] 

27 See D&C 93:39. [1991 June 5] 

28 The summation of all light within the visible spectrum is white light, pure light. The summation of all truth is complete holiness and absolute perfection. Just as there are gradations of light across the visible spectrum, so there are gradations of holiness and perfection - of truth - in existence and among species. In Christ is all truth (D&C 93:26), even all light. He is the Light of the world. (D&C 93:2, 9.) Even in the visible spectrum of light, all things testify of Him. [1991 June 5] 

29 Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, 

     And sorry I could not travel both 

     And be one traveler, long I stood 

     And looked down one as far as I could 

     To where it bent in the undergrowth; 

     Then took the other, as just as fair, 

     And having perhaps the better claim, 

     Because it was grassy and wanted wear; 

     Though as for that, the passing there 

     Had worn them really about the same, 

     And both that morning equally lay 

     In leaves no step had trodden black. 

     Oh, I kept the first for another day! 

     Yet knowing how way leads on to way, 

     I doubted if I should ever come back. 

     I shall be telling this with a sigh 

     Somewhere ages and ages hence: 

     Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - 

     I took the one less traveled by, 

     And that has made all the difference. 

     - Robert Frost, (1915 - 1916) [1991 June 4] 

30 “The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not; nevertheless, the day shall come when you shall comprehend even God, being quickened in him and by him. Then shall ye know that ye have seen me, that I am, and that I am the true light that is in you, and that you are in me; otherwise ye could not abound” (D&C 88:49-50). [1991 June 5] 

Heavenly Father - and by divine investiture of authority, His Son, Jesus Christ - is the true light which is in us: even as the flesh of our mortal mothers is the flesh within us, which gives us life, so, too, we shall see that we are the offspring of Deity, that we are the offspring of His spiritual body, and that the spiritual element within Him is that same spiritual element within us which gives us life, by which we are able to abound - to increase in glory beyond our own primitive intelligence. [1991 September 2] 

In fact, it will be seen that God is the Father of our physical bodies, as well! That, in the Garden, God begat Adam and Eve in their premortal physical bodies. And that, while these bodies have undergone changes subsequent to the Fall, still they bear inside their cells the substance of Deity, the genetic material of the Gods. When we shall look upon our Father and our Mother again, we shall look upon ourselves! We shall see how truly we in every way are surely the children of the Gods! Even the children of God! This is the greatest mystery of Godliness! (Something once commonly known among men, but then taken for granted! See Genesis 6:1-6.) [1998 January 31]

Obtaining a "spirit" body like God's

The Father, being eternal, has a body of flesh and bones, as tangible as man's. The Son, also. 

Nevertheless, the Father is said to be a Personage of Spirit, or possessing a body of "spirit": a "body" of matter more pure and refined, even energized, than we "naturally" enjoy; whereas the Son (while mortal) was said to be a Personage of Tabernacle, having a mortal, physical body.

You could say, I suppose, that the Father's body -- and now the Son's, He having been resurrected from the dead -- operates "at a higher frequency" or is "more full of light" than ours -- even a "fulness" of light. The Father, as well as the Son, is full of light and truth.

I've been told that, were we to stand in the Father's presence as we are now, we would melt -- or be destroyed in the flesh, unless we were prepared to endure it -- not unlike how gamma radiation would destroy us. This makes sense to me. The Father is a very "high energy" Personality, or "Personage of Spirit".

There are many degrees and kinds of resurrections, each having its own glory. (Every mortal experience is a kind of telestial glory or "resurrection".) The Son, Jesus Christ -- known as "Jehovah" prior to His mortal birth -- already possessed a "spirit" body before He came here. (In other words, He had previously been resurrected somewhere.) His pre-mortal spirit body -- what we call the "Holy Spirit of God" -- was a glorified, previously resurrected "body" operating at a higher frequency than our mortal, "natural" bodies do. 

Jesus is, indeed, the same yesterday, today and forever! Quite literally! He was "spirit" before He came here and He is "spirit" now. (His formerly "physical" body now operates at a "higher frequency", what we call "spirit".) 

In Jesus is a fulness of all light and truth (or organized intelligence) able to be appreciated in this sphere. He gained this fulness, one step at a time, advancing from glory to glory and from grace to grace, as we must, if we wish to be like Him. 

He is now "God" to us. He shares that same glory He had with His Father prior to coming to this earth, "in the beginning". He is "one" with God. Jesus is, indeed, now, to us, our Father who art in heaven, our Creator and our God. He is "God among us", Immanuel. He (with the Gods) made this world and everything that was created in it. With the Gods, even Elohim, Jesus' creations are innumerable to man. They are Endless.

Once Jesus became flesh -- once He took upon Himself another physical tabernacle, or tent -- His body (that "temple" seen and handled by men) was perceived as "matter" rather than "spirit". (He condescended to live among us in flesh.) Of course, Jesus retained His "spiritual" body, too, otherwise known as the Holy Spirit of God, or His Holy Ghost, that intelligence He had previously organized in and with God.

It is that Holy Spirit, that light and truth, that is in Christ that must be in us if we are to abide in Him.

Contrary to what we may suppose (in LDS circles), while having a body of flesh is an advancement over a body of spirit, a body of flesh operates at a lower frequency (or glory) than spirit does. 

The spiritual "body" of knowledge, experience and glory (or intelligence) we attain to in this life rises with us in our next iteration, or resurrection. "Spiritual glory" is added to (or subtracted from) us by mere fact of us living, experiencing and overcoming (or being overcome by) opposition in this world, either augmenting or detracting from that spiritual, or glorified, "body" of knowledge or intelligence we have previously obtained.

For some of us here (who are overcome by this world), it would have been better that we had not been born. Nevertheless, if it is possible for us to repent, it is always preferable that we do so rather than leave this world "unprepared" and unrepentant, having thus been overcome.

For the same spirit that possess us here will have power to possess us in the next life (for that is the only spirit we have to work with).

Christ's atonement allows for "life" to continue (to steal a phrase from Star Wars) "bringing balance to the Force".

Quite literally, we are what we think and do! And, because of Christ (and what He did on our behalf) our existence hereafter will continue (for good or evil). He will continue to be God and thus He can raise us from the dead, both physically and spiritually, building new worlds (and bodies) and opportunities for us. He has gone to prepare a place for us. There are many "mansions" (or bodies) that must be occupied to attain His Father's house. We must be born again. Because Christ quite literally overcame this world (and the sins thereof, vanquishing both death and hell), we ought to be of good cheer! We shall live again! And see the Son of Man in our flesh. For He is our God and our Redeemer! 

That's why it's important for us not to sin. When we sin, we disorganize (or disrupt) the light and truth we have received (and previously organized), even "losing" some of it (to one degree or another) to "disorder" (sometimes causing others to do likewise). We need this light and truth to recognize our Savior, to "hear" His voice and "perceive" His light! His light and truth, His "voice", "resonate" with us within our souls. We "vibrate" at the same "frequency" He does -- because His light and truth are found in us. Otherwise, we walk in darkness and are as "dead". Unless we follow Him, we (in His mercy) inherit the deaths: which is life like we enjoy now, worlds without end, receiving what we were willing to receive, because we would not receive what we might have received, if we were faithful.

Those who are not of God do not hear His voice or perceive His light. They are "children" of the evil one. Christ is not their father, neither is His Father their father. By disobedience, they have made themselves "bastards", cutting themselves off from God, worlds without end.

Nevertheless, God still loves them...and gives them a place in His house, even a kingdom of glory, in which to dwell -- rewarding good for evil, perchance that they might repent and feel after Him, even come unto Him.

For charity never fails.

Gaining knowledge in this fallen world (in other words, organizing intelligence) is a messy business, involving disorder! "Sin" is the inevitable and unavoidable consequence of learning to follow God. (If we already knew Him and His ways, we'd have nothing to learn here! What would be the point of enrolling in this "class" if we already knew and mastered all the material?) 

Making "mistakes" and learning not to repeat them was the whole point of coming to this world (for us). For Jesus the point was to avoid making mistakes and obtain the prize of eternal life (again) to show us the way. We are all and always will be indebted to Him, to Jesus, for giving us this opportunity to advance and become like Him. We are "saved" by His grace, after all we can do.

Once we know who God is (and isn't), we don't need to sin anymore! To "know God" is to possess the "instruction manual" to build an "engine" revealed to us (and in us)...with all the parts provided (but scattered around the garage)! We could try to put an engine together without God. (And He has supplied many of the parts for us to do so!) 

But it is unlikely -- even impossible, for worlds without end -- to correctly build any useful "engine" without Him. Why? Because He is God. He is the prototype of the perfect engine. His way is the only way to be even as He is! There is no other way than His way to be like Him: He is The Way! 

Just like there's only one way to put an engine together -- the right way, so that it works, with no missing parts -- there's only one way to be full of light and truth. God is full of light and truth (the light and truth we need). Anyone who would become like Him must be full of light and truth as He is. 

Only God knows how to put all light and truth together properly.

So, in effect, this statement is true: "It's not what you know, but Who you know." What you know will never be enough unless Who you know is the Source of all light and truth. 

Do you know God? Who else is going to teach you the truth of all things?

"Life" is a process of learning "God's way is the right way", even the only way (if you want to be like God). However long that takes to "learn", so be it! 

We may construct a lot of non-functional, semi-functional, near-functional and crappy-functioning "engines" before we realize (or "discover") the "shop manual" -- the holy scriptures and the spirit and word of the Lord -- pick it up, read it, follow it and start doing things "right", like a real mechanic would! With enough knowledge and experience, we may even be able to make our own engines -- from scratch! -- the way the Master Mechanic, or God, does it. His way is the only way to do that.

Jesus' mortal body was like ours in every respect except He possessed the intelligence (or capacity) to imbue inanimate matter with life itself. (He may have been given other attributes or advantages, being sired by an immortal Father, but I don't know what those were.) 

What the Father imparted to Mary included the germ of mortal life. Nevertheless, Jesus suffered, hungered, tired and fatigued, perhaps even got sick, as we do! He was, in every way and respect, just like us, but without sin and more intelligent than us all. He possessed more light and truth than we do in His "Holy Spirit" -- that part of Him that exists "not of this world", where His "kingdom" resides, the truth of all things.

Just as Jesus' kingdom (or Holy Spirit, or Light of Truth that pervades and perceives all things, giving life to all things) could not be taken from Him by force, His mortal life could not be taken from Him involuntarily. (He was too "smart" for that.) Jesus "spiritual" intelligence controlled His "physical" body, not the other way around. His "Holy Spirit" operated independent of His physical body and could overcome and manipulate crude matter in this world (including His physical body). He could thus give life to others. Not just physical life, but the knowledge (or "organized intelligence") that enables spiritual life.

When Jesus "condescended" (in His pre-mortal "spiritual" body) to appear to the brother of Jared, He literally had to slow down (operate at a "lower frequency" -- much like an adult stoops down and speaks slowly to a child) -- so that the brother of Jared could see, hear, feel and understand Jesus! (This is what I understand.) Spiritual beings are around us everywhere. They operate at frequencies normally beyond our "natural" ability to detect. When we focus on this world and the "things" thereof, we ignore and overlook spiritual entities completely (even though they still influence us).

Those who sin are controlled by "evil" spirits -- spiritual organizations who know not and seek not God. Those who keep God's commandments, conversely, are "controlled" by Him. They come to "know" Him in their flesh and blood, taking His flesh and blood upon them (by doing His works).

Contrary to what the Bible implies, Jesus was a "spirit" after He rose from the dead, appearing to His disciples in a chamber without open doors or windows. Just as with the brother of Jared (thousands of years before), Jesus had to "slow down" (in His "resurrected" physical body, now rendered "spiritual" by higher energy and glory) so His disciples could see, hear and touch Him!

Apparently "resurrected" beings don't have to die again. They can choose to do so, if they wish, undergoing mortality like we're doing here. "Resurrected" beings incorporate a "new" body (of organized intelligence) with their "old" body (through this process called "mortality" and "resurrection"), thereby attaining greater glory, intelligence, etc. We are, in fact, putting on our spirits glorified "skins" of experience, learning, and knowledge even as we live in this sphere. This knowledge we attain here "rises" with us in the next life (or "resurrection"), when we do it again!

By becoming sufficiently intelligent, we may gain power over this world (and life itself). Like a Jedi, we may control trees, mountains, rivers, the air, even our own bodies, lifting them up from death, if necessary (or from inanimate existence) to life. 

The "miracle" of Jesus' "resurrection" -- leaving the tomb empty -- was "for show": to demonstrate conclusively to the world that Jesus, even after death, had power to control and maintain life. He could "wear" even that body -- the one so abused and beaten -- speeding it up, as it were, and incorporating it into His living, eternal soul, scars and all. (Jesus, in glory, looks somewhat different than the Man who walked among us. Thus, by His appearance, He was not readily recognizable even by those who knew Him well in mortality.)

To see the Father and Son, and Adam and Seth, is to see similar Personages of Spirit, Beings who have, by experience, attained to the exact same level of light and truth available in this sphere. They "look" identical to us. To "know" One is to know Them all. To be "one" with One is to be "one" with All. Thus we seek to be "sealed" the the Fathers, for They are "one" with God.

This is life eternal: to know God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent.

To control matter presupposes vast intelligence and power, both in the worldly, physical, material sense and in the spiritual. The closest thing I've ever read approximating it is the fictional book Jonathan Livingston Seagull, by Richard Bach. (A short read, but full of inspiration!)
We can "stop" this "carousel" of advancement in glory (or risk of failure) at any time either by sinning, or by simply choosing to forego experiencing mortality again. Thus would end our progress and we would be "damned".

We damn ourselves, and there are those who "damn" us -- who take from us blessings and impose in their place burdens upon us. Such are those who murder and rape, who lie and steal. The soul who carries this burden, who must bear fear, pain, anguish and loss, or a child unwanted, or return to this mortal sphere again to advance, repeating lessons already learned (because they were prevented from finishing their "course" the first time) will be rewarded with even greater charity, power, endurance and glory. No suffering is wasted. No effort at straining fails to produce even greater spiritual muscle! Those who are used and abused in this world, losing everything, gain the most in the world to come. The last shall be first and the first last. Having descended lower, they shall rise even higher.

Here we are made "a little lower than the angels", but in that world to come, having passed through this life, we will receive "a far greater and exceeding and eternal weight of glory", if we prove faithful here.

We're adventurous types! (That's why we came here!) We're all seeking to advance, in some way or another. By coming here, all of us -- even those already having the promise of eternal life -- are seeking greater glory, knowledge, power, light and truth, even joy. 

Man is that he might have joy.

Jesus took this journey to its most bitter and joyful end, until He could say "It is finished" and sat upon His Father's throne.

So may we.

When will the "two minutes of hate" stop?

The MSM's daily output of "fake news" regarding Trump is appalling and disturbing. The MSM is so desperate to find anything to smear Trump with that today -- what will it be tomorrow? -- they blamed Trump for the spate of alleged "anti-semitic" bomb threats sweeping the country.

Anti-semitism? Really? Do you know anyone speaking evil of or persecuting Jews in America? (I don't.)

Look what Steven Goldstein, the executive director of the Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect -- mutual respect! -- had to say about Trump:

“The President’s sudden acknowledgement is a Band-Aid on the cancer of Antisemitism that has infected his own Administration. His statement today is a pathetic asterisk of condescension after weeks in which he and his staff have committed grotesque acts and omissions reflecting Antisemitism, yet day after day have refused to apologize and correct the record. Make no mistake: The Antisemitism coming out of this Administration is the worst we have ever seen from any Administration."

I very much doubt that.

President Obama "stuck it" to Israel every chance he got! He even made Jewish Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu come and go through the "back door" when he visited the White House!

I've heard President Trump denounce anti-semitism repeatedly.

He positively fawned over Netanyahu during his visit to Washington just last week. I heard him denounce anti-semitism, saying he was the least anti-semitic, least racist person in the world! His Jewish son-in-law was sitting right in front of him when he said it!

Trump has included his Jewish daughter, Ivanka, and her Jewish husband in key administrative meetings, decisions, and actions all throughout his campaign and since taking office. 

Yet Goldstein claims "the cancer of Antisemitism...has infected" Trump's administration?

Puh-lease!

Tonight's NBC Nightly News blamed Trump for not doing more about anti-semitism, calling his actions and statements thus far "too little too late" -- as if Pres. Trump's job is to be America's hall monitor, looking for bullies picking on Jews and lecturing us on how to behave! The MSM are the bullies! They've been "picking" on Trump since before the election, reminding U.S. constantly that Trump is what's ails America. 

The Left's constant attacks on Trump for his alleged racism, bigotry, sexism, etc., utterly lack merit. There's simply no evidence! 

So the Left must "manufacture" it. Hence, "fake news".

Who's responsible for the alleged bomb threats against Jewish centers? (I blame the Left. I'd check Mr. Goldstein's phone records personally before I looked anywhere else.)

Who knocked over dozens of headstones at a Jewish cemetery in St. Louis? (I'd check if Mr. Goldstein has rented any cars lately.) 

Until we have more information, I blame the Left.

This just isn't the sort of thing Trump supporters would do. (Looks like a "black flag" operation to me.)

I'm getting sick of the MSM's lies. Every single broadcast of the NBC Nightly News includes some (more than one) "anti-Trump" segment. 

Last night, in addition to the "normal" anti-Trump fanfare, NBC broadcast "two minutes of hate": unfiltered historical footage of people holding anti-Trump signs at various locations and rallies, without editorial comment or context.

Just pure hatred.

I have never seen such invective directed toward any American president. In fact, I've never seen such hatred directed toward anyone! Not the Unibomber. Not Ted Bundy. Not Fidel Castro, Mao Zedong, or Che Guevarra...heck, not even Barack Obama or Adolf Hitler! (What do all those people have in common? They are all serial killers and mass murderers.)

Absurdly, the Left now calls the Trump administration "literal Nazis"!

It's over the top, folks! It's GOT to stop.

A recent debate on Trump, Terrorism and Unchecked Immigration

My friend, Jim, mocks President Trump whenever he gets a chance. Trump held a “campaign rally” on Saturday and said this about terrorism and the effects of rampant illegal immigration:

"You look at what's happening in Germany. You look at what's happening last night in Sweden ... Sweden ... who would believe this? Sweden, they took in large numbers, they are having problems like they never thought possible. You look at what's happening Brussels, you look at what's happening all over the world."

Jim posted the following on Facebook: 

“Grieving for Bowling Green now Sweden oh my”

That elicited the following exchange between us:


***

Me: You really should grieve for Sweden, Jim. Sweden is now the rape capital of Europe, thanks to Islamic refugees!

I appended to this comment a video titled “Stockholm Syndrome”, by Ami Horowitz, documenting how rape and violence have exploded across Sweden due to its immigration policies. These crimes are perpetrated (largely) by illiterate, unemployed, Muslim “refugees” from Africa and the Middle East. They are “reconquering” Europe and Europe isn't even putting up a fight!




Me: Then there are the "useful idiots", who bury their heads in the sand.

Jim: And we are the murder capital of the world

Trump is right the media is not covering the Swedish issue last night...

Jim “cut and pasted” something from Wikepedia:

I looked it up Sweden has expanded its definition of sexual assault here have been several international comparisons made, placing Sweden at the top end of the number of reported rapes. However, police procedures and legal definitions vary widely across countries, which makes it difficult to compare rape statistics.[8][9][10][11] For example, Sweden reformed its sex crime legislation and made the legal definition of rape much wider in 2005,[3][4][8][12] which largely explains a significant increase in the number of reported rapes in the ten-year period of 2004-2013.[13][14] The Swedish police also record each instance of sexual violence in every case separately, leading to an inflated number of cases compared to other countries.[8][11][15] Additionally, the Swedish police have improved the handling of rape cases, in an effort to increase the number of crimes reported.[8][14][16][17] Raised awareness and a shifting attitude of sexual crimes in Sweden,[note 1][18] which has been ranked as the number one country in gender equality,[19] may also explain the relatively high rates of reported rape.[8][11][20]

Me: Jim, are you going to deny and explain away (with statistical analysis, even) the cultural sea change toward violence and sexual assault that has overtaken Sweden (France, Germany etc.) as a result of a mass influx of (mostly Muslim) refugees? Are you going to disbelieve your own eyes? How many videos do I have to post showing angry crowds of Muslims shouting "Death to America" or assaulting women before you accept the truth? (What? You think these videos were filmed at the Republican National Convention?)

My gosh, man! Hitler announced, long before he wrested power: "We're going to kill all the Jews!" But the Jews in Germany just sat in the audience saying to themselves and others "He doesn't mean us, of course, we're his biggest fans!" One ought not be so open-minded his brain falls out! All peoples, cultures and religions are NOT the same! Some are downright evil. Those who murder innocents in the name of God, teaching others to do likewise, believing death is preferable to life, are particularly deleterious.

Being compassionate toward others does NOT require that we bring them to US. We can help them THERE, in their own lands and cultures, among their own peoples, practicing their own religions. We don't have to BECOME them to help them. Their goal, however, is to make US one with THEM.

Jim: Hey Will what happened Friday night in Sweden? Even the Swedes don't know? He will stats don't add up...how about those Christians killing people in church, schools, and theaters in this country. All white.....

Me: Can you believe the governments of Europe -- just like the states attorneys general, the media and others in the US -- minimize and obfuscate racial (and religious) statistics, going so far as to omit references to the RACE of perpetrators, so as not to "stereotype" or incite bigotry, as if race were NOT a key distinguishing characteristic in describing culprits?

My children do this. At a football game there were MANY large and burly men. Only one was black. I actually witnessed my son trying to describe which man was the coach of the other team -- referencing everything from his hair color to the clothes he was wearing to his size and muscles -- ANYTHING but his most definable and easily recognizable feature: he was black! The only black man on the entire field! Referencing his skin color, he could be singled out in less than a second! But my son took several seconds describing EVERY OTHER feature. He had been conditioned to do so; that it was "impolite" to acknowledge that all men are NOT created "equal". (As if being black were something to be "ashamed" of or ought not be mentioned).

The media do this with extraordinary alacrity. COUNTLESS crimes are reported, committed by blacks and Hispanics, with NO reference to race whatsoever! This is political correctness run amok.

The current establishment don't want to admit the DISASTER that unregulated immigration has been -- both for US and for them. Hence, they MINIMIZE the consequences (and any potential backlash of popular opinion) by understating (and not reporting!) WHO, exactly, is committing these crimes. Law enforcement and government agencies actually SUPPRESS racial and nation-of-origin statistics, as if knowing that HUGE percentages of crimes being committed by blacks, Hispanics and illegal aliens FAR IN EXCESS of the general population is NOT important for US to know.

Refugee Immigration has been a DISASTER for Sweden, France, Germany and elsewhere. The powers that be CAN'T admit that THEY are responsible for the murdering, rioting, theft, sexual assault, and mayhem! They CAN'T ADMIT that MUSLIMS are running down people in trucks, murdering people in theaters, raping women in parks, and rioting in the streets saying they are "victims". They must HIDE all this and perpetuate the myth that "nothing is wrong here" -- just like our government hides the national debt and deficit, unemployment statistics, death and disability due to vaccines, the crisis of Social Security, etc.

Self-serving governments rely upon useful idiots to perpetuate their schemes and cover their tracks. Don't be one of them.

Jim: There is a disproportionate amount of minorities in prison in US...but then you have to ask why? I realize that our country has issues I watch the orange man spew crap...yes I believe in the staticall data...do not feel a conspiracy to pull one over on the American people other than the powers in place....so what happened Friday that Potus was spewing about...Sweden wants to know...or those mass shootings in USA by white Christians?

Me: Holy cow, Jim! You have your head so far up your ass, my friend, that you can't even see the light! Did you read ANYTHING I just wrote? Your apparent "shot gun" denials has you "seeing" everything but understanding NOTHING! How about we address ONE topic at a time? (Instead of always responding "but...but...white person..." or "but...but...Republicans....") Don't let your biases and prejudices preclude your vision!

Do you DENY that a Muslim in Nice wasn't very: running down dozens of Christmas shoppers? That Muslims stormed a theater in Paris, slaughtering and torturing innocents?

I appended an article for reference:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/07/16/graphic-france-suppressed-news-gruesome-islamic-state-torture-paris/

Do you deny that, in the past few years, one Muslim slaughtered dozens in a nightclub in Orlando, two Muslims slaughtered over a dozen in San Bernardino, and countless Muslims have slaughtered tens of thousands of Christians worldwide, driving them from formerly Christian enclaves and countries?

Where are the marches of Christians in the streets shouting "Death to Iran" or "Death to Muslims and Jews"? It's RIDICULOUS how you equate a single drop of Christian bigotry (arguably found SOMEWHERE) with an entire OCEAN of Muslim hatred, violence and bigotry found ABSOLUTELY EVERYWHERE!

There are a disproportionate number of hispanics and blacks in prison because a disproportionate number of hispanics and blacks commit A DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNT OF CRIME! Over 50% of all the murders in America are committed by just 3% of the population -- young black men! Same for other violent crimes! Illegal immigrants are FAR more likely to access welfare -- and STAY on welfare -- than the general population. These are facts. To deny them, under the guise of being politically correct, is willful ignorance. (Didn't you HATE the fact that the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany "controlled" the news? Why do you tolerate it in America?)

What "crap" did President Trump spew Saturday? Did he mention "terrorist attacks" in Sweden specifically? Or did he reference the general lawlessness I speak of? Did you watch the video? What would you call THAT?

And PLEASE point me to "those mass shootings in the USA by white Christians". I'd like to start keeping tabs. I'll punch myself in the face EVERY TIME a "Christian" (ANYWHERE in the world) murders an innocent bystander while shouting "Praise the Lord!" if you'll punch yourself in the face every time a Muslim in, let's say, just Europe (to keep it fair) murders someone screaming "Allahu Akbar" (or "God is the greatest!").

Care to take that bet?

I appended a link documenting the government suppression of information regarding the gruesome torture of victims by Muslim terrorists in France:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/07/16/graphic-france-suppressed-news-gruesome-islamic-state-torture-paris/

Jim: Ps we are having a candlelight vigil for Sweden you are invited...in fact we are using same candles from Bowling Green vigil

Again the media hasn't really covered this tragedy but our thoughts are with Sweden at this time

If Jim weren't my neighbor and good friend, I'd think he were a troll! He certainly enjoys goading me!

Me: You know, Jim, this is just another example of "fake news".

Please point me to Trump's quote from Saturday that you mock so much. I listened to the campaign rally speech TWICE, as a matter of fact, and I didn't hear what you apparently heard. Please enlighten me.

Here's an example: USA Today (always left-wing) "twists" what Trump said, making it SEEM he referenced some specific attack on Friday rather than the general uptick in lawlessness in Sweden that is so apparent.

I appended a link to an article in USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/02/19/umm-what-supposed-terror-attack-baffles-swedes/98129506/

Note that the USA Today article is DERISIVE throughout, even as it downplays Trump's LEGITIMATE reference to surging violence and lawlessness in Sweden. Again, Jim, just as you do, the Left MINIMIZES the evidence corroborating the FAILURE of the policies of the Left and, instead, points the finger elsewhere. Can't we just acknowledge the truth without blinders and filters on? Does EVERYTHING have to fit OUR "agenda" before we'll acknowledge it as truthful?

Jim: I have not seen anything truthful...still waiting on what happened Friday nite in Sweden....let's not forget who coined alternative facts...let's not forget how smooth his presidency is going...lol...let's not forget he had to get rid of his national security adviser after 3 weeks on the job ..

Someone name Karla Roberts chimed in:

Karla: I have learned is that staunch Trump supporters refuse to admit that their candidate is mentally unstable and "very, very bad" for our Country. They will find absolutely no fault and will defend him despite the apparent falsehoods/mistakes. No need to educate them about it, they refuse to be reasonably intelligent about the things they are claiming/defending.

Jim: Oh by the way here are some Christian school killing people in the name of Christianity.....

• Frank Roque murdered in Wisconsin thought were Muslim..Sikhs
• Wade Page murdered 6 in Wisconsin couldn't tell the difference 
• Dr George Tiller killed by Scott Roeder
• David Atkinson killed 2, 7 injured
• Dr John Britton and bodyguard killed by Paul Hill
• Eric Rudolph killed 2, injured 111
• Murder of Barrett Stephanie by Charles Kapp
• Killing of 2 receptionists by John Salvi
• Suicide attack at IRS building 2 fatalities 
• Death of Alan Berg
• Dylan Round 
• Robert Dear

Me: More finger pointing. More "buh, buh...look over there!" Yes, President Trump probably MISSPOKE about "Friday night". What probably happened is he LEARNED about (or saw the report about) the upsurge in violence and rape being committed by Muslim refugees ON FRIDAY NIGHT and mentioned it. (I saw the report on Friday night, too, as it happens. I could EASILY have made that reference myself.)

Jim: Yep he said look what happened last night in Sweden...so what happened in Sweden...The idiot was watching a documentary and couldn't figure it out and that's where the finger settles on...himself

I didn't know you were Potus..where he speaks for entire free world...he took a documentary as fact and reported it specifically to Friday night...you are still invited to vigil

I would be interested if he included in his band Saudi Arabia after all didn't they have something to do with some aircraft? So his business dealings don't allow him ...he's a farce

He misspoke? About fraud elections? About winning electoral election by widest margin ever? Or his relationship with Putin......lol

Me: Jim, your reference to "some Christian school killing people in the name of Christianity" was incoherent. Where is that happening? When did that happen? Show me.

I'm NOT arguing that so-called "Christians" DON'T kill others. Heck! The vast majority of Americans -- including blacks and hispanics -- are "Christians". Are we therefore to assert that MOST murders and crimes committed in America are "Christian" crimes, done "in the name of Jesus!"? Absurd!

I said "I'll punch myself in the face EVERY TIME a "Christian" (ANYWHERE in the world) murders an innocent bystander while shouting "Praise the Lord!" if you'll punch yourself in the face every time a Muslim in (let's just say) Europe (to keep it fair) murders someone screaming "Allahu Akbar" or "God is the greatest!".

There are, no doubt, Christians who kill abortionists "in the name of Jesus". Are they right for doing so? (If you saw a man in a schoolyard killing innocent children, would you do EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER to stop him, including kill him)? I think many abortion opponents see the controversy in these stark terms.)

I don't condone lawless violence (of any kind), ESPECIALLY when perpetrated by those who take innocent life intentionally. To equate "Christians" who murder abortionists (arguable "murderers" themselves) with Muslims (whose very religion DEMANDS the slaughter of "infidels", be they Christian or Jew, women and children, even other Muslims!) is to demonstrate moral relativism on an absurd scale! Details, Jim! Details! Show me a cultural and religious CHRISTIAN movement (supported by hundreds of millions world-wide) that SUPPORTS the mass-murder (or subjugation) of non-Christians? You can't do it! But THAT is PRECISELY what Islam is!

I will say, in closing, you MIGHT say that "America" itself is a manifestation of murderous bigotry; that the Conquistadors slaughtered pagan savages "in the name of Jesus" etc.; that England hegemonically expanded its frontiers around globe in the 17-19th centuries "in the name of God, King and Country" just as America has done in the 19th-21st centuries "for truth, justice and the American way". I think you'd have a valid point.

But the days of "converting pagans to Christianity or killing them" are over, at least for Americans. (You'd be as hard-pressed to find a murderous "Christian" missionary as you would a virgin on the Dallas Cowboys cheerleading squad! Yet Islam has hundreds of thousands of them!)

Jim: Army of God

I gave you the names of the shooters or victims you can look them up

Me: Gosh, Jim! You keep rambling! A mile wide and a millimeter deep! I could spend ALL DAY dispelling the "fake news" controversies. (But I'd be going up against a MONOLITH of misinformation, obfuscation and intentional, willful ignorance.) SNL is NOT a news outlet! The MAJORITY of mainstream news today is INFOTAINMENT, masquerading as "news" and "facts". EVERYTHING is biased, from the Right AND the Left. Ironically, Trump is refreshingly CENTRIST. (I wish you could see that. There's a little bit of "something" for EVERYONE in Trump. A former Democrat. Hillary supporter. Draft-dodger. Liar and cheat. Womanizer. Failure in business. Serial philanderer. Married to an immigrant. (Representing the Left). Current Republican. Hillary-attacker. Supports the military. Truth-teller. Respects and promotes women and women's issues. A business success. Faithfully married. Supports LEGAL immigration. (Representing the Right). Quintessentially American!

Jim: I don't watch snl I watch Potus and his minnions

There is nothing for me with Trump...the crap that comes out of the him is crap

He's a fear monger...you have a 29 % chance of being hit by lightning than a terrorist attack

Faithfully married..he has 3 marriages and 5 kids from these women....lol

So how's that Saudi ban going?

Me: Okay, Jim, I read about your "Christian terrorists". More Christians and gays are killed on ANY GIVEN DAY OF THE WEEK by Muslims than ANYONE your "Army of God" has killed in ITS ENTIRE EXISTENCE.

Would you advocate the unvetted importation to America of ANY members of these groups you decry, as maligned and mistreated "victims" of irrational religious and racial bigotry? I doubt it!

I appended an article: “6 Modern-Day Christian Terrorist Groups You Never Hear About”

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/army-god-6-modern-day-christian-terrorist-groups-you-never-hear-about

Me: Jim, in high-lighting Trump's "virtues and vices" I acknowledge the OBVIOUS inconsistencies, incongruities, and disparities. Are you saying that Trump is currently cheating on his current wife (as he has on past wives)? No? Then he is "faithful" (while EVERYONE ACKNOWLEDGES that he has been "unfaithful"). As I wrote, there's a little bit of something for EVERYONE to hang their hat on with Trump. And, by the way, the Southern Poverty Law Center is a recognized Left-leaning organization. The claims it makes here GROSSLY equate MINUSCULE "Christian terrorist" organizations and groups with Islam -- a religion embraced by BILLIONS.

The only Muslims who DON'T support murdering (or oppressing) Christians, Jews and other "infidels" are those "moderate" Muslims who DON'T practice their religion as it is preached and required by the Qur'an (much like Catholics who don't go to church, read their Bible, keep the commandments or believe in the Pope, but still call themselves "Catholic").

Did I make myself clear? Would you IMPORT "Army of God" members to America, or allow them entry, unvetted, as some "persecuted religious minority"? No? Then why would you let Muslims in, when their very religion DEMANDS "death to Jews" and "death to America"?

It's nonsense!

And, ironically, many Jews will be the first to welcome these "Jew-haters" in with open arms, not remembering what happened when Jews buried their heads in the sand in Germany.

The failure of Trump to ban ALL Muslims should not preclude him from banning ANY Muslims, just as America's selling of alcohol to adults doesn't prevent the lawful prohibition of selling alcohol to minors. For political and practical purposes, the Administration has concluded, apparently, that Saudi Arabia does NOT present as great a threat to American stability and security as these other countries do.

I imagine the ban was largely, if not entirely, CULTURALLY and DEMOGRAPHICALLY targeted. Saudi Arabians are NOT emigrating to America in large numbers, but Somalis ARE! Hundreds of thousands of them! They are CHANGING the culture and demographics of America. Whole swaths of cities are being transformed. It's like entering a Third World now in many American cities and suburbs, with the same lawlessness, poverty, and social convulsion. America is being OVERTHROWN by immigration!

YOU would not want to live in THAT America. (You don't want to live in Somalia! Or even Mexico!) Why would you import "that" country here, with ALL of its people and problems? Help them THERE! (You don't have to give up your own bed to help someone else find a place to sleep!)

The fact that Trump interjected “last night” into his remarks (observing the general lawlessness and terrorism on the rise with regard to refugees) gives the Left opportunity to attack him, as if something had to happen "last night" to warrant drawing attention to the calamitous influx of violent, predatory Muslims in Europe.

Three weeks ago Kellyanne Conway, a counselor to the president, mistakenly referred to “Bowling Green” as a “massacre”, when, in actuality, it was the locus for terrorist activity (Muslim terrorists storing and moving weapons) to plan and commit terrorism in the United States and massacres abroad. (These terrorists were apprehended and sentenced to life in prison. The fingerprints of one were found on an improvised explosive device in Iraq. How many people have these men killed already?)

With the Left, if you DON'T get the story EXACTLY right, they discount EVERYTHING you say and call you a liar. (Even if you DO get the story EXACTLY right, they will attack, dismiss and misrepresent what you say.) Meanwhile, they don't even have to APPROXIMATE the truth themselves, but can use satire and outright lying to misrepresent your position. Ms. Conway was “thinking on her feet”, not reading a speech. The fact that she misspoke, or even misunderstood and misrepresented the actual facts several times, in NO WAY impugns the seriousness of her assertions or minimizes the threat of unregulated, mass importation of people hell-bent on destroying our culture and way of life. Mocking those seeking to protect U.S., the Left will laugh themselves silly...to their graves.

An example of the mockery employed (even in this fairly-well-balanced article) is given below:

I appended a New York Times article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/03/us/politics/bowling-green-massacre-kellyanne-conway.html

Jim: Nope the Saudis get a free shot eh?

Me: What are recommending, Jim? What is your goal?

Jim: That is when they started vetting people which now is a 2 Year process...BTW the incident you state is bowling Green

Me: Yeah...did you read my LONG comment about it above?
Jim: Continue with the vetting process...thinking on her feet? That's bs ...she's making up shit...but too late we had that vigil

You treat all countries equal....you just don't willy nilly but a ban in place call it freedom...most of the people want to get away from persecution

Me: But all countries AREN'T equal, Jim. Do you think Canadians are coming to America to KILL U.S.? Swedes? Chinese? Equadorians? But murderous Muslims are coming to America. MILLIONS have pledged to kill U.S....and they're coming here. If you wait too long to stop them, they gain control...and then ALL HELL breaks loose (as it is almost everywhere else). Don't be a dupe! You can help and protect the afflicted WHERE THEY ARE. You DON'T have to bring both the victim AND HIS ATTACKER to U.S.!

Jim: I don't live in paranoia...millions are not vetted...again better chance of being hit by lightning...so look up

Me: When it's YOUR kid who is killed, YOUR wife raped and ravished, when YOUR city is blown up or YOUR church bombed by Muslims, I'll remind you of the "statistical improbability" of it all.

She's making it up? Are you kidding me? You can see the videos of the Bowling Green terrorists unloading their guns! You think she just pulled "Bowling Green" out of thin air? If I said "San Bernardino", would you say "Now you're just making stuff up!"?

Jim, it's hopeless. You're a dyed-in-the-wool apologist for mass, unregulated immigration. (Why? I don't know.) Unregulated (and disproportionate) immigration (largely from Third World and war-torn countries) is absolutely CRAPPING UP American society.

You can see it in any public restroom, school classroom, urban neighborhood or welfare office. Heck! Just look at the jails! This ain't Aunt Bee's America anymore! We're now as dumb as a box of rocks, lawless, immoral and selfish. The "whiners" who break the law are complaining about being caught! Stupefaction on a national (even global) scale.

A woman named Lisa Hogan joined the debate:

Lisa: Going to the gym now...then coming back for the Waldron/Carter debate!??

Me: Just to finalize all this, Jim...

Trump didn't END immigration, he temporarily SUSPENDED it -- from seven war-torn countries -- to put ADEQUATE vetting procedures in place.

Trump DIDN'T say Sweden suffered a terrorist attack on Friday, he said: "Here's the bottom line. We've got to keep our country safe. You look at what's happening. We've got to keep our country safe. You look at what's happening in Germany, you look at what's happening LAST NIGHT in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this. Sweden. They took in large numbers. They're having problems like they never thought possible. You look at what's happening in Brussels. You look at what's happening all over the world. Take a look at Nice. Take a look at Paris. We've allowed thousands and thousands of people into our country and there was no way to vet those people. There was no documentation. There was no nothing. So we're going to keep our country safe."

He DIDN'T say Sweden had a terrorist attack last night. If the ONLY THING you can complain about in that speech is his EXTEMPORANEOUS inclusion of TWO WORDS in that paragraph above, YOU'VE GOT NOTHING because EVERYTHING he said there was TRUTHFUL.

Kellyanne misspoke -- and, truthfully, misunderstood -- the context and nature of Bowling Green. (Who can keep up with all the Muslim terrorism, here and abroad? I can't fault her for not being "perfect" on it...but YOU do!) You don't DENY there's rampant Muslim terrorism here and elsewhere, you just say "look at lightning!", "look at Christians!", "treat everybody the same!"

Point me to those videos of mass WHITE youths rampaging through malls and looting 7-11s, or REPUBLICANS, CHRISTIANS or WHITES burning down businesses and overturning police cars. Please show me evidence that WHITE CHRISTIAN REPUBLICAN AMERICANS are forging documents, stealing identities and illegally crossing into Mexico to take advantage of lax and generous immigration and welfare laws, then committing crimes (like rape and murder) before sneaking back into the U.S. Please show me where it's the foundational doctrine of the Christian religion to kill Jews and Muslims and throw gays from rooftops.

Your "equality" is insanity! Cats and dogs are NOT the same! Muslims and Mormons, Jews and Christians, Baptists and Buddhists, Americans and Armenians are NOT the same! They don't value the same things, worship the same God or play by the same rules. You want to live in Afghanistan? Move to Afghanistan! Don't bring Afghanistan here!

Trump (as well as myself) want to welcome ALL people of good will to America...but only if they embrace and enhance AMERICA! Not destroy it! Not transform it! Not render it a ruin! (And that's what's happening ALMOST EVERYWHERE YOU LOOK where mass, unchecked, unfettered and unregulated immigration from the Third World is happening.)

And, quite frankly, God is LETTING it happen...because that's what we deserve (and so do they).

***

NOTE: Just as I thought! It turns out Trump was right after all!

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