I just finished reading Denver Snuffer's Ephraim talk. It's no better or worse than the others. (They're all great!)
I believe Denver has been ministered to by Jesus Christ and bears an "authorized" message from Him. I was greatly saddened when he was excommunicated from the LDS Church, for apostasy, last September.
I likewise believed George W. Pace (my former stake president at BYU) when he wrote his book back in 1981 claiming to have met Jesus. I was greatly inspired by his words -- in part, because, by that time, I had experienced the Lord for myself (in spirit) and wanted to know Him more (in flesh). I therefore sought to "come unto Christ".
But then I read a talk given at BYU by Elder Bruce R. McConkie (while I served my mission in Chile, in 1982). In that talk Elder McConkie all but denounced Bro. Pace by name and condemned those seeking to develop a "personal relationship" with Jesus Christ. Elder McConkie's sermon virtually destroyed Bro. Pace's reputation and confused the hell out of me! (My missionary companion, Elder Thompson, and I used to read Elder McConkie's book Mormon Doctrine to each other as "bedtime stories"! Now that wonderful book is, strangely, out of print.) Bro. Pace was released from his calling as stake president and students dropped his classes. I was there (as a returned missionary). I saw what happened. I remember. I could not reconcile Elder McConkie's message and the wonderful inspiration I received from Bro. Pace. I also could not reconcile the "excuse" I heard Elder McConkie proffer for giving that talk. (His secretary was related to one of my friends, and she told me that Elder McConkie said he meant Bro. Pace no harm. She said he was speaking about some other sect, not Bro. Pace; that Elder McConkie wasn't even aware of Bro. Pace's book! But I found that claim too fantastic to believe.) Still, I revered Elder McConkie and cherished his own testimony of Christ offered a few years later, just a few weeks before he died (of cancer).
I believed, as a freshman at BYU, the testimony of my religion professor, Avraham Gileadi, who invited (allowed) me to be the first of his students that semester to teach his Book of Mormon class (for 25 minutes!) on the subject of "receiving personal revelation" -- using the Book of Mormon as my proof text! (That experience was a "spiritual highlight" of my life!) I was later visited by the Savior in a dream, which I recounted to Bro. Gileadi as we sat together in the Harold B. Lee Library. Bro. Gileadi was a tower of spiritual strength and insight to me, humble and meek. I was greatly surprised, therefore, that he, too, was excommunicated from the LDS Church for apostasy. (To be clear, that action was later reversed and expunged from his record.)
I have met Tim Malone, author of the blog Latter-day Commentary. He is also very humble and meek. He has tried to faithfully serve both God and Mormon, but, even now, his character and testimony are being weighed in the balance, threatened with excommunication if he doesn't keep quiet. (He is not keeping quiet! :o)
I have met Tim Malone, author of the blog Latter-day Commentary. He is also very humble and meek. He has tried to faithfully serve both God and Mormon, but, even now, his character and testimony are being weighed in the balance, threatened with excommunication if he doesn't keep quiet. (He is not keeping quiet! :o)
Several times I've been offered "grace" to be mentored and inspired by those who have met and known the Savior, or who have wanted to know Him. I've felt a strong impulse to join them. But then I've been turned away into filthy waters (mostly by Church members!) or I've let myself be "diverted off course" by (of all people!) Church leaders who have insisted that it "isn't necessary" or "it's not our place" to strive to meet and know the Lord (contrary to all scripture!).
You can go a lifetime in the LDS Church nowadays and never hear a sermon about coming unto Christ in this life in the flesh. You may never hear of someone recounting their experience of seeing His face or of their aspiring to do so. Ironically, it was that very message -- the testimony of Joseph Smith and the First Vision and the witnesses of the prophets in the Book of Mormon -- that first attracted me to the LDS faith. I just assumed that, since those witnesses were true (so my spirit testified), the Church also must be true, even today.
You can go a lifetime in the LDS Church nowadays and never hear a sermon about coming unto Christ in this life in the flesh. You may never hear of someone recounting their experience of seeing His face or of their aspiring to do so. Ironically, it was that very message -- the testimony of Joseph Smith and the First Vision and the witnesses of the prophets in the Book of Mormon -- that first attracted me to the LDS faith. I just assumed that, since those witnesses were true (so my spirit testified), the Church also must be true, even today.
A year ago last May I happened upon Denver Snuffer's blog. (A fortuitous event!) Having "tasted" somewhat of his teachings and finding them "delicious" to me (like the words of Joseph Smith), I endeavored to read all of his blog from the beginning. As I did so, the Holy Ghost bore witness to me, time and time again, that he taught the truth. For several days and nights that season, sleep fled from my eyes and eating became a chore! His words were a window into heaven and a light unto my soul. In a way, they were my words -- like a song faintly remembered of words sung in childhood. Denver's words were "familiar" to me, distillations of my own thoughts and experiences. He brought context and focus to what I previously only faintly perceived or somewhat suspected, but didn't dare admit. He "reminded" me of what I should be doing and courageously told the truth. He taught by the power of the Holy Ghost, which brought all things back to my remembrance.
Because of Denver's ministry, I began to draw closer to Christ, to repent more earnestly and conscientiously of my sins (especially the "small" ones, like getting angry or being impatient with others or being unkind and selfish). I began to offer more fervent prayers and became "re-acquainted" with that same Spirit that first guided and attracted me to Mormonism. I began to feel again the Spirit whispering to me "God is here" in the things which Denver was teaching.
My temple attendance increased. I became enthused again with doing genealogy and temple work, mostly for the holy "focus", personal "purification" and family "centered-ness" that worship in the temple encourages. I became even more careful to read the scriptures diligently with my family each day. I was living a "Mormon" life better than at any time in my life. In fact, it was starting to come "easy" to me. And my focus was changing. I was focused on being -- and becoming -- not a good "Mormon", but a true disciple of Jesus Christ. I was happy again.
My temple attendance increased. I became enthused again with doing genealogy and temple work, mostly for the holy "focus", personal "purification" and family "centered-ness" that worship in the temple encourages. I became even more careful to read the scriptures diligently with my family each day. I was living a "Mormon" life better than at any time in my life. In fact, it was starting to come "easy" to me. And my focus was changing. I was focused on being -- and becoming -- not a good "Mormon", but a true disciple of Jesus Christ. I was happy again.
After several months of study and contemplation, I got "caught up" to the "present" in Denver's blog. I read his last post just as he faced excommunication from the LDS Church for what he taught. The timing was perfect. I "experienced" with him the pain and loss of that decision and expressed to him my sincere condolences and dismay.
Because I believed Denver's teachings were important -- even essential! -- I shared them with others whom I loved (stalwart members of my ward, other LDS friends, my bishop and stake president, etc.). By and large, what I shared was rejected...and, ultimately, so was I. My excommunication occurred seven months to the day after Denver was rejected and abandoned by the LDS hierarchy.
Why, also, would I doubt Denver's words? His testimony of Christ rings "true" to me -- right down to the color of Christ's clothing! -- because I have seen Him! (And that other guy, His nemesis, the impostor.)
Still, I would like to meet Him, in the flesh, in my flesh. Denver says it's possible. (Denver says he has!) But I won't, I suppose, unless and until I'm willing to do all things He asks. Even if it's painful. Even if it's inconvenient or unexpected. Even if it kills me...or the "life" I otherwise might "crave" -- like sleeping all night uninterrupted, without making a warm bottle of milk! Or changing a diaper!
Does my confidence in Denver's testimony mean that I don't doubt myself? Of course not! I doubt myself all the time! I know I am flawed, feeble and failing! I have a life-long track record of being an abject failure!
So why would I be any different now?
Because, as Denver has reiterated, Christ considers me (all of us) His "mission" to "rescue", "redeem" and "exalt"! I am (we are) His "work" and "glory"! Thus, who am I (who are we?) to stand in His way, refusing to do His will?
Doing so, we only hurt ourselves.
I can't imagine wanting to do this whole "mortality" thing again!
Coming here truly is "condescension" on a cosmic scale. (Pampers, puberty, poverty and pain!) But maybe it's a necessary condescension -- either to save ourselves or to help save another. I know I would come here again -- and again and again! -- for my children's (or my wife's) sake -- and endure it all, if I could help them progress. (Maybe I have.)
Many years ago I was shown in vision my receiving my "mission call" prior to this life, to come to earth. (It was an unexpected revelation, and I didn't understand it at first.) My "call" -- rather than elicit a shout for joy! -- was an event that inspired great sadness and disappointment for me, even anger. I was upset! Wasn't I "qualified" for more?
Selfish me!
I was not shown all the details in my vision. But maybe others needed me here, too. I have to wonder. All I have ever wanted -- my whole life! -- has been to be a dad and to bring these children into this world! That has been my calling. That has been my purpose.
And refinement. And proving. And the chance to glorify God by professing His name, receiving His grace, and doing His will. That has been my "mission". It doesn't seem like much (to the world). But it has been everything to me. And to them. It is what I was "born" to do. How else could they live? Or be saved?
God knows best.
Doing so, we only hurt ourselves.
I can't imagine wanting to do this whole "mortality" thing again!
Coming here truly is "condescension" on a cosmic scale. (Pampers, puberty, poverty and pain!) But maybe it's a necessary condescension -- either to save ourselves or to help save another. I know I would come here again -- and again and again! -- for my children's (or my wife's) sake -- and endure it all, if I could help them progress. (Maybe I have.)
Many years ago I was shown in vision my receiving my "mission call" prior to this life, to come to earth. (It was an unexpected revelation, and I didn't understand it at first.) My "call" -- rather than elicit a shout for joy! -- was an event that inspired great sadness and disappointment for me, even anger. I was upset! Wasn't I "qualified" for more?
Selfish me!
I was not shown all the details in my vision. But maybe others needed me here, too. I have to wonder. All I have ever wanted -- my whole life! -- has been to be a dad and to bring these children into this world! That has been my calling. That has been my purpose.
And refinement. And proving. And the chance to glorify God by professing His name, receiving His grace, and doing His will. That has been my "mission". It doesn't seem like much (to the world). But it has been everything to me. And to them. It is what I was "born" to do. How else could they live? Or be saved?
God knows best.
I know He is patient. According to Denver (and what I've understood by the Holy Spirit, revealed decades ago) He will let me fail, worlds without end. (He already has! He has showed me many worlds!) Why should I not "awake and arise" now and come back into His presence now and cast off now and forever this "having forgotten all"?
He is faithful to fulfill His word. If He says (by a true prophet) that He wants to save me now -- and is willing and able to make that happen now (I do not doubt that He is), why should I doubt Him? Why should I not let Him? Denver says He's ready and willing to save me! In fact, He's more anxious to see me brought back into His presence than I am anxious to get there! Denver says God is making the offer now! And I believe Him! (And him!)
The last time that offer was extended and rejected, 170 years ago (with Joseph and Hyrum's murder), the heavens were sealed and the opportunity was withdrawn unto the third and fourth generation. For my children's sake, I do not want to let this opportunity pass by unaccepted.
The last time that offer was extended and rejected, 170 years ago (with Joseph and Hyrum's murder), the heavens were sealed and the opportunity was withdrawn unto the third and fourth generation. For my children's sake, I do not want to let this opportunity pass by unaccepted.
All this time, all these years -- even as I stumbled and fell! -- whenever the Lord revealed things to me, as I read His words in scripture, He was speaking to me! When I prayed and received thoughts not my own, He was speaking to me! When I saw Him in dreams, when I heard Him teach, when the Holy Ghost fell upon me and filled me with fire and marvelous knowledge, greater than I could communicate to others, He was speaking to me! I heard His voice! And, except on a few occasions, I didn't even know it was Him!
My father has heard Him, too. He has heard His voice, calling my dad by name. I know he has heard Him, for my dad has told me so. I know my father has spoken the truth because I have heard His voice too. He loves us. And we have a mission to perform.
If my dad had not heeded the Lord's voice when He spoke to him, I would not be alive today. And neither would my dad.
I once erred, because I was taught the precepts of men. But a true prophet is now teaching the things of God. And I hear God's voice again.
My father has heard Him, too. He has heard His voice, calling my dad by name. I know he has heard Him, for my dad has told me so. I know my father has spoken the truth because I have heard His voice too. He loves us. And we have a mission to perform.
If my dad had not heeded the Lord's voice when He spoke to him, I would not be alive today. And neither would my dad.
I once erred, because I was taught the precepts of men. But a true prophet is now teaching the things of God. And I hear God's voice again.
I don't know how I stayed in the LDS Church for as long as I did. I loved the Church. I was willing -- and able -- to keep all of the Lord's commandments, "worthy" to hold a temple recommend. My love for the truths Joseph Smith taught and for the many fine teachings I received from those who succeeded him as President of the Church, as well as those appointed to "watch over" me, persuaded me that "the Church is true" and that I should trust in the Church (and its leaders) to "save" me. (Consequently, I also trusted in polygamy and false doctrines taught by false prophets -- and all the attendant whoredoms, temptations and follies those evils inflicted on the saints and me!) While I knew and was blessed by many good and faithful "shepherds" in the Church, I also knew enough of men to know that no man was capable of "saving" me. I knew I needed to be saved by Jesus Christ alone...or I could not be saved at all.
Just as an aside, when I was 9 years old (in fourth grade), the Spirit of the Lord whispered the following words to me as I rode my bicycle at the top of my street:
Mind you, I did not come from a religious family. (We didn't even own a Bible!) I memorized those words and recited them to my mom and my fourth grade teacher. (They didn't think much of my poem! And I thereafter kept it to myself!) I admit, it's no Shakespeare! But it was the voice of God spoken unto a nine-year-old boy's mind who had little, if any, religious instruction. I see now that it was the voice of God speaking unto me.
Just as an aside, when I was 9 years old (in fourth grade), the Spirit of the Lord whispered the following words to me as I rode my bicycle at the top of my street:
God is love. God is joy.
God loves every girl and boy.
If you believe that God is true,
God shall hear and answer you.
But if you sin upon His Son,
God will tell you not to run.
For He'll forgive and then
forget and God
will love you
ever
yet.
Mind you, I did not come from a religious family. (We didn't even own a Bible!) I memorized those words and recited them to my mom and my fourth grade teacher. (They didn't think much of my poem! And I thereafter kept it to myself!) I admit, it's no Shakespeare! But it was the voice of God spoken unto a nine-year-old boy's mind who had little, if any, religious instruction. I see now that it was the voice of God speaking unto me.
That I could not and would not do. It ran contrary to everything I knew to be true; to everything I had experienced: from the first moment I called upon God in mighty prayer (as a nine year old, and discovered from Him that my mother would bear another boy, my baby brother!) until today.
It was imagined by them, I suppose, that -- if all went as "planned" -- I would appear before my Maker (for the first time, most likely) at Judgment Day, "pre-approved" by them to enter into His rest, to enjoy a celestial existence with them...But only if I did whatever they told me to do and only if I received all the "authorized" ordinances from them and was still in "good standing" with them before I died! To be clear, in their mind my eternal salvation rested in their hands! Make no bones about it...or else!
I was urged by these "leaders" to reconcile myself to the probability that, despite my best efforts and earnest desires -- and certainly contrary to what Denver has taught! -- I would not be meeting Jesus any time soon...because none of them (none of these men) had ever done so. Nor had anyone else they knew! They taught, therefore, that Jesus "hath done his work, and he hath given his power unto men" (2 Nephi 28:5). Surprisingly, they were willing to excommunicate me (and anyone else!) who taught otherwise! (Few, if any, of the early Latter-day Saints would thus be allowed to be members of the LDS Church today, much less teach Sunday School there.)
What does that tell you about the current leadership of the LDS Church?
I believed they had the "authority" to administer legitimate ordinances. I never doubted or disputed that. But when they claimed that Jesus was not involved; that He could not, nor would He ever use anyone but them to do His work...I knew this could not be true. For I knew otherwise, by personal experience. He had ministered to me. And when I tried to testify of this in Fast and Testimony Meeting, they repeatedly shut me up! There were simply too many examples in scripture of Christ doing otherwise, too many testimonies delivered, both ancient and modern, to conclude that Christ would ever give His power to others alone to do His work. He is our Savior! LDS leaders could rightly claim they were guided by God's Holy Spirit. (For many LDS and non-LDS people are!) But inasmuch as they denied the personal ministry of Jesus Christ among them, even to me, I knew the truth was no longer with them.
Furthermore, the Holy Spirit bore witness to me that Denver spoke the truth. What else could I do? Deny that witness? (The Church leaders "revealed" themselves by how they treated -- and continue to treat -- Denver and me.)
Having now read his talk on Christ, I am even more thoroughly convinced that Denver is telling the truth.
I pledge to not let this opportunity pass me by without giving it my all.
I pledge to not let this opportunity pass me by without giving it my all.
Will,
ReplyDeleteThat was amazing. Thank you. When the Church starts throwing truth seeking individuals out of the Churh because it doesn't fit their paradigm, you know apostasy is present. I was at BYU in 1977 and I later went to the UofU...please don't shun me! I never was in the mix when George Pace was dissed. I know it was sad. It was never in the disposition of Joseph to do this. How can the church continue this cherade? They can as long as they use the world to govern their affairs. Do you realize if they never did these lynchings, there never would have been the troubles that they have listed today? One worldly move has launched this further searching and exodus. It is a good thing because the awakening has begun. You and others are the sacrifice for the good that is developing. Consider yourself as a lynchpin. I know it sounds trite, but you are an important piece in the whole picture. You will be blessed far beyond the hurt that has been developed. The Savior said,"Come follow me". Can we truly follow the Savior save we shall be willing to keep all his commandments? I say nay, nay. when the excrement hits the fan, and it will, you will still be in a good place because of your desire for truth. Thank you for putting yourself on the line. It will bode well for you in the coming days.
It is a wonderful thing to read a testimony like yours because it serves as a second witness to the spiritual witness I and others received in that little auditorium in Ephraim that we were listening to a True Messenger and in fact the promises made of old could be achieved by this generation. It is an exciting time to be alive.
ReplyDeleteThanks
ReplyDeleteI love to read your testimony
I love to read & hear Snuffers testimony
Prophets are among us !
Christ is now the focus !
Bring it on !
Lets go shopping !
"Let's go shopping!"
ReplyDeletehahahah
That was funny!
Harrah for Israel - Lets go shop
ReplyDeleteHarrah for Israel - Lets go shop
Harrah for Israel - Lets go shop
Amen, Amen & Amen
I have been singing your poem. It sounds really good in my mind. Whoda thunk that we would be choosing between true prophets and mall builders.
DeleteI knew from the first time I read his words that Denver was a prophet because he lifted me just like reading the Book of Mormon always does. Now, 6 years later, I still know he is a prophet. I wish I could testify of that in church but the Spirit has restrained me. It will be good to be among friends and fellow saints in Las Vegas and St George. Thank you for your testimony Will.
ReplyDeleteJR